Minimal Wave Records

And all through the discussion here, it’s only now I realise I didn’t actually play the songs from the rar-pack. Seriously though, you’d think I was more interested, wouldn’t you?

Sheesh.

Just curious if anybody here got the offer to bid on the Pure Form 7” he was peddling a couple of years ago? If so, read the e-mail…it contains an interesting statement.

Don’t bet on it. My brother had to pay $500,000 for his little house and it’s a shoebox. One of the reasons I left. 

Hello Fiftypercent,

Welcome to Minimal Wave and many thanks for posting those songs!

I am saying welcome because I take it you are not Darkwave, the person who made the initial post on this board?

You know, we have our track record with strange entities and identities here like e.g. the infamous MINIMALSYNTHPOLICE already mentioned in this thread.  8)

Also there was some confusion regarding you and a certain Mike P on the New Wave Outpost board as well?

You have to understand that our readers of the Minimal Wave Post want all minute detail they can get on this story, which roughly goes as follows so far:

Naive music lover (you, no offence meant :wink: ) posts forgotten songs on an internet board completely unaware that he might be stirring up something in the shark tank that is the dark and cynical world of minimal synth collectors. Music is nice & collectable, though not absolutely extraordinary (no offence meant) and 7” would probably be valued at Euro 1.- (Mobiles - Drowining in Berlin) to Euro 5.- (Neue Jugend - In Weimar) were it not so incredibly RARE.

Evil shark with personality disorder (obscure, no offence meant) digs up two copies, advertises 7” as containing “brilliant songs with the best minimal synths and vocals you will ever hear”, bangs the drum in the world at large while having no intention whatsoever to make big bucks on it, and finally manages to sell off one copy for USD 622.- on Ebay.

Anything you would like to add to this? I can’t change anything in the initial text of course, as it’s already gone into print…..  8)

The happiest person in the world today is the person who didn’t have to part with the $4,000.00 to invoke an early end to the auction.

Looks like they got the discounted rate of $622.00 if they bid.

You know, if I had an obscure synth single of the eighties up on ebay, and someone asked me to stop the auction the day before and sell it at $4000, I would have assumed they were joking or insane - and not replied back.

$622 for a single that sounds like B-Movie but with weaker songs? Well, people pay more than that for Northern Soul, I know, so who am I to argue. The Seeing Red single does however not go on my wants list. I might give $20 for it, just as a memento of this very lengthy and heated debate…

eight6: what was that Pure Form email again? I think I got that, at least, I have received at least some emails that loosely fit that description, but I didn’t keep it.

Sometimes when you read the auctions of Obscure-the-invisible-man you get the feeling he’s taking you for a fool, but - when you can sell such a run-of-the-mill bog-standard mediocre new wave 7” as Seeing Red (no offence if anyone who made it reads here) at hundreds of dollars, perhaps it’s understandable if you conclude that other people are more stupid than yourself.

[quote author=“reactorlgtn”]
eight6: what was that Pure Form email again? I think I got that, at least, I have received at least some emails that loosely fit that description, but I didn’t keep it.

David,

Let me know if you want the Pure Form 7” with Picture Sleeve.  The Price is
$901.11.
As I said in the auction this is the ONE and ONLY known copy with picture
sleeve.  The band member was contacted and he only had one copy left, and
that is this copy.  Alright then I am sending this to all the collectors.
So whoever contacts me first gets it.  This is NOT another Dark White or
Dorian Grae Scenario.  There is only ONE
COPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!

Thanks,
Stephen
obscure records

The “This is NOT another Dark White or Dorian Grae Scenario.” just sounds to me like an admission that a bit of deception was afoot during those “multiple” one offs. At least that is how it reads to me.

I had forgotten about the Dorian Grae eps…like having an episode of deja vu.

I never post here (too time consuming), but I feel compelled at the moment.

obscure said: “It took me two years to get the records originally, and I am the only reason they are in collectors hands.”

I do not doubt that Stephen is a very resourceful person, and I gave him a tip of the hat at the time for finding the Dark White records. Why? Because i was hot on the trail of Mr. Razah Renfield some months previous. I spoke to Cassandra (name? I don’t have the 12” in front of me) one of the people who worked on the record, and had some very hot leads on folks to contact who knew Razah’s real name, and where he was at the time. (Likely still somewhere in the Chicago region.)

Unfortunately, I got very distracted by one of life’s perils, and never followed through with my leads. Some months later Veronica V. told me at the WFMU Record Fair that Stephen had tracked down the Dark White guy and gotten records from him. He who hesitates is lost (or short of copies of a valuable record, at least.)

Whatever the case, just to toot my own horn, I’m proud to say that I bought a sealed copy of this very record on eBay in late ‘04 for $7.99 Buy It Now (I still have the screen capture of the purchase.) Terrified at the time that someone would discover my find and offer more money to the seller, I researched and found his phone number and called him up. Turned out he had another sealed copy which he also sold me for $7.99. I can tell you that it was murder waiting for that box to arrive on my doorstep! A few days later, it did. (BTW, I later traded with Stephen and got another sealed copy, which I traded to a German bidder.)

But hey, they’re only records…

In response to eight6 saying:

“Do you know what’s tougher than arguing with an idiot?

Educating one.”

So is this why you continue to be an idiot, because there was a lot of trouble educating you?  Can you tell us what it is like to be an idiot?  I can see from your own rhetorical question that you answered that you have a lot of progress to make.

In response to eight6 saying:

“$4,000.00…I think somebody is pulling your leg.”

And that somebody most definitely must not be a friend of yours, because I had two people offering me insane amounts of money for the auction.  One being $4,000.00, and the other being $5,000.00.  So I am guessing that there must not be a certain MALICIOUS person out there that used his friends in order to try to get me to end an auction early with false claims so that I wouldn’t see any money from a record that that person does not have, and cannot get.  You would not know anyone like that would you eight6?  So let’s add that to a new category:

The USER category

and we can also throw it in the old and sweet:

MALICIOUS category

And for inquiring minds who I’m sure want to know.  Here’s to eight6’s great friends, and there extravagant spending budgets.

ebay user handles:

godloves80s-  is a serious highroller with $4000 to lay down.  And quite honest when it comes to trying to cheat auctions.  I wonder if that puts him in the MALICIOUS, and HYPOCRITE categories.  There is a rhetorical question eight6.  Please don’t answer it, and we will have made some progress today.

but no one is as highrolling as the biggest spender of them all

jacave-  With a proposed $5000 bid the auction most certainly would have been his, but alas he is so upset at a persons comments defending themselves on a public forum that he cannot take it in his best interests to get the Seeing Red record that he seriously desires with an extravagant $5000 bid, and he can also not see that he is being USED by a MALICIOUS person which in its own right makes him MALICIOUS, and DUMB.  Here’s to jacave.  With his 17 point feedback, and 0 wins this last month he is soon to be the preemptive minimal synth collector of the world.  A force to be reckoned with, so watch out Joerg!!!

In response to eight6 saying:

“I guess I’m supposed to add “I’m so jealous” that I can’t bid.”

I know you are. It looks like you are jealous a lot as you readily admit when you say.

“Whatever klumpa decides to pay for it”. (BTW: if you post here, I’m envious, no jealous, of your vinyl buying abilities) “

Here’s to another category for eight6 and all his jealousy:

The PATHETIC category

And once again in response to eight6 saying:

“It’s more than 2 forums, you just haven’t found the others yet. Take it offline…we’ve bored others to tears. Be a man.”

That is such a great statement considering that after it you posted these statements:

“Just curious if anybody here got the offer to bid on the Pure Form 7” he was peddling a couple of years ago? If so, read the e-mail…it contains an interesting statement.”

and

“David,

Let me know if you want the Pure Form 7” with Picture Sleeve. The Price is
$901.11.
As I said in the auction this is the ONE and ONLY known copy with picture
sleeve. The band member was contacted and he only had one copy left, and
that is this copy. Alright then I am sending this to all the collectors.
So whoever contacts me first gets it. This is NOT another Dark White or
Dorian Grae Scenario. There is only ONE
COPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!

Thanks,
Stephen
obscure records

The “This is NOT another Dark White or Dorian Grae Scenario.” just sounds to me like an admission that a bit of deception was afoot during those “multiple” one offs. At least that is how it reads to me.

I had forgotten about the Dorian Grae eps…like having an episode of deja vu.”

So, are these posts you readily admitting that you are not a man, and you are an idiot as well.  All I know is I will throw them in the following categories:

HYPOCRITE
DUMB

Also, as your witch hunt continues please let me know how many copies of the Pure Form 7” you have seen on ebay since I listed it?  Another rhetorical question.  Don’t answer, don’t answer.  Do you know why? Its because a rhetorical question is a question you don’t answer because the answer is already known. 

So I hope we have made some progress on the eight6 Idiot/Child front today.  In the last day he got to add two categories being:

The PATHETIC category
The USER category

and also got to add to many of the oldies, but goodies.  As you can see I am readily working on the

DUMB category

to see if I can make any headway.  According to him it will be tough, but I think I am pretty good at challenges.

obscure

In response to Falck saying that I am a hyprocrite for these statements:

“Why should someone not use this forum to make money?”

and

“Also, I don’t really care about making big bucks from the Seeing Red auction.”

Here are what would be hypocritical statements.

“All I care about is using this forum to make money from the Seeing Red record?”

“I don’t really care about making big bucks from the Seeing Red record.”

I’m sure you can see the difference, because I know you are much more intelligent than my other work in progress.

In response to Falck version of the story:

“Naive music lover (you, no offence meant ) posts forgotten songs on an internet board completely unaware that he might be stirring up something in the shark tank that is the dark and cynical world of minimal synth collectors. Music is nice & collectable, though not absolutely extraordinary (no offence meant) and 7” would probably be valued at Euro 1.- (Mobiles - Drowining in Berlin) to Euro 5.- (Neue Jugend - In Weimar) were it not so incredibly RARE.

Evil shark with personality disorder (obscure, no offence meant) digs up two copies, advertises 7” as containing “brilliant songs with the best minimal synths and vocals you will ever hear”, bangs the drum in the world at large while having no intention whatsoever to make big bucks on it, and finally manages to sell off one copy for USD 622.- on Ebay. “

I can add to this.  These facts are true.

How much the Seeing Red record cost me=  $0.00

How much money I have made from the Seeing Red record=  $0.00

I’m sure everyone will be more than happy to know that Joerg just sent the band $622.00 with Pay Pal, and in return for selling it for them they sent me a free copy of the record.  I’m sure everyone will be sad to know that those two tracks we’re all that was recorded, and no more copies of the record will be sold.  They watched the forums, and thought it was ironic that everyone was upset at me while I was the one making them money, and all the people on the forums we’re stealing money from them by downloading their music through illegal file sharing, and we’re upset at me, because I wouldn’t facilitate their theft or partake in it.  Anyway, so there is the end to a cathartic story for you all, and Falck now you can laugh uncontrollably at your statements when you called me a hypocrite for saying

“Also, I don’t really care about making big bucks from the Seeing Red auction. “

I was laughing at your laughter.

obscure

Ok….I just got to get in on this….

What is it with these minimal synth guys?

They can program the hell out of a keyboard but can’t figure out how to use Ebay???

Says he sold it for the band? Something that Fifty should be able to find out!

and with the Dark White stuff…..had some from a band member….then got some more from the same guy? Don’t you think the guy would be interested in knowing what the stuff was going for if he was selling it in the first place? Don’t you think he would sell the rest he had for top dollar himself? Or did obscure just hang on to a few and sell them down the line?

and if those people were going to spend 4000. or 5000. on it….why didnt they?

Well it was fun to watch someone get what it sounded like they deserved!

All I know is…....

WITHOUT A DOUBT ONE OF THE MOST INCREDIBLE

MINIMAL SYNTH RECORDS IN EXISTANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

went for 622.00

[quote author=“obscure”]

....

I can add to this.  These facts are true.

How much the Seeing Red record cost me=  $0.00

How much money I have made from the Seeing Red record=  $0.00

I’m sure everyone will be more than happy to know that Joerg just sent the band $622.00 with Pay Pal, and in return for selling it for them they sent me a free copy of the record.  I’m sure everyone will be sad to know that those two tracks we’re all that was recorded, and no more copies of the record will be sold.  They watched the forums, and thought it was ironic that everyone was upset at me while I was the one making them money, and all the people on the forums we’re stealing money from them by downloading their music through illegal file sharing, and we’re upset at me, because I wouldn’t facilitate their theft or partake in it.  Anyway, so there is the end to a cathartic story for you all, and Falck now you can laugh uncontrollably at your statements when you called me a hypocrite for saying

“Also, I don’t really care about making big bucks from the Seeing Red auction. “

I was laughing at your laughter.

obscure

Ton,

I have I might have to reconsider my argument that obscure lacked sufficient intelligence to be the MINIMALSYNTHPOLICE.

After all it doesn’t really take much for that, and here’s a rather entertaining attempt of his to get his cock off the block and rise like an albatros from the ashes.

Of course it must have been my blindless that made me oversee the bit in the auction and the posts where the seller explicitly explained that he was selling the 7” on behalf of the band.

It seems I also figured the bit wrong that he used the info on the backside of the cover to look up the names in the Guernsey directory. Reading his post he must have been friends with them for years and they seem to be the only people clever enough to see his true colours.

Now for someone who argues like a five-year-old when talking to eight6, the moral bit with the mp3s is surprisingly clever, and one might even believe for a second that somebody would have bid on the 7” had they NOT listened to the mp3s before.

The industry argument about theft and lost money to wrap this up however is a lot poorer. It’s just a wild guess, but it seems most people would be struggling to locate a place where to send an order for a CD or an original/repress 7” right now. Call me a bluffo tradionalist, but I’d hold the view that you have to give people the possibility to spend money on something in order to claim that you are losing money.

And even if every part of this story was true, I’d like to hint at the fine detail that Mr. Obscure then gained a record worth USD 622.- on Ebay which he alledgedly can even sell off for USD 4000.- - which he won’t do of course, as he is - as he so convincingly explained - not interested in money.  8)

I only feel kinda sorry for the band because they will be linked to all this forever. And it’s not them who claimed that they made some of the best minimal synth songs ever.

And for all those too lazy to read all this - watch out for the latest edtion of the Minimal Wave Post.  :wink:

THE MINIMAL WAVE POST, SATURDAY EDITION.

MINIMAL SYNTH SHARK: I ONLY DID IT FOR CHARITY!

In a recent statement Mr. Obscure, the man behind the auction which caused so much uproar in the world of minimal synth collectors, now declares he only did it to help the band win some money.

Mr. Obscure also expressed his regret that the band recently lost money, as due to unlawful internet distribution of their songs, the other two copies of their 7” known to exist got stuck on the shelves. Rumours that Mr. Obscure is also planning on setting up a home for impoverished minimal synth legends in the near future however remain unconfirmed so far.

[quote author=“obscure”]In response to eight6 saying:

—-insert customary apoplectic response here, ensuring it neither makes sense nor fails to amuse.—-

And here I thought your creativity was limited to your eBay descriptions. I must say that if you insist on posting these long winded diatribes, I’ll have to hire a reader to read them for me.

As for the band being outraged that people were illegally downloading the music posted on another site, I’d say that’s a family matter between the band members and their cousin. Have you also been selected at their legal representative? I thought I’d ask as it seems you are already their agent.

Please keep up the good work…it’s undoubtedly the best $40.00 I’ve ever spent.

Oh, and don’t be a stranger at NWO…we could use a couple of creative writers there.

[quote author=“obscure”]

MALICIOUS category

And for inquiring minds who I’m sure want to know.  Here’s to eight6’s great friends, and there extravagant spending budgets.

ebay user handles:

but no one is as highrolling as the biggest spender of them all

jacave-  With a proposed $5000 bid the auction most certainly would have been his, but alas he is so upset at a persons comments defending themselves on a public forum that he cannot take it in his best interests to get the Seeing Red record that he seriously desires with an extravagant $5000 bid, and he can also not see that he is being USED by a MALICIOUS person which in its own right makes him MALICIOUS, and DUMB.  Here’s to jacave.  With his 17 point feedback, and 0 wins this last month he is soon to be the preemptive minimal synth collector of the world.  A force to be reckoned with, so watch out Joerg!!!

obscure

First off - a greeting to all at the Minimal Wave forum. I’m glad to be here even if I do wish my first post could have been made under better circumstances. My name is Terrence but obscure the invisible man apparently knows me better as jacave the malicious and dumb.

I do not know where to even begin to address what has been written above about me as it is completely inaccurate, slanderous, immature and classless and doing so without stooping to his level could prove to be very difficult. Please bear with me and I shall apologize in advance if I let my anger get the best of me.

Now that you all have heard from obscure, perhaps now you would like to hear the facts. I was initially alerted to the fact that a Seeing Red record had been placed for auction by a friend of mine who knew I have been searching for this record for years. You see, unlike 99% of the parties pontificating on this subject, I had actually heard of Seeing Red prior to this whole debacle. I placed a bid of $400 having no idea how much the record would fetch ... but $400 seemed like a good starting point ... an amount which would weed out less serious collectors while triggering ebay’s outbid notification alerts if I should be outbid. With less than 12 hours left in the auction, that $400 was still enough to be in the lead. All the while, I had been prepared to go as high as $5000 for this record. A) because obscure himself stated that he had been offered $2000 to end the auction early and B) because there were rumors that another collector would be placing a bid of $4000. Do I consider $5000 to be exorbitant? Yes, but money is not an issue for me and I love this record and wanted it and have never heard of a copy being offered for sale and probably never will again.

In the meantime,  I had been reading the topics both here and at the NWO with great interest. Obscure claims that I am a friend of David(eight6)‘s ... while I would not say we are “friends”, we have done business in the past and have a working relationship of trust and respect. He would not and in fact, could not “use” me to fight his battles. He doesn’t need me too as he is more than capable of handling himself against any adversary. You say he’s malicious? I have never found him to be anything but honest. Obscure however, has turned out to be the exact opposite and when FACTS about his past shady dealings came to light, I began to become reluctant to deal with him. But not just because of the mysterious appearing Dark White records ... or the groove damaged item he sold David ... it was also because of the condescending tone of his communications with anyone who dares question him about anything. He comes across to me as a bitter little nerd who has nothing else in his life but a perceived superiority when it comes to knowledge of music who takes great pleasure in belittling people to make himself feel better. NOT the kind of “man” I wish to do business with, especially given the possibility (likelihood?) of being ripped off and/or having a situation come up where I would need to work with him to reach a compromise in the event I was unsatisfied with our transaction.

And so with great regret, I retracted my bid. I tried to do it through ebay but they wouldn’t let me so I emailed obscure to ask him to manually retract my bid and block my user id. I was very polite in my email and while I did voice my concerns (I felt I owed him that much), I also wished him luck with his auction. His reply was actually quite civil (towards me, at least). He used the opportunity to further bash David, however ... and then said that should I wish to reconsider, to just let him know. AS IF! At that point, if there was any doubt in my mind that he was not a person worth doing business with, he certainly removed it. As it stands now, I don’t even care if I ever get this record as it has in my mind now become forever associated with this “man”.

Now, I see he has decided to publicly bash me. Why, obscure? Especially after it seemed you had no problems with me? Is this another example of your stellar business practices? Yes, I have 17 feedbacks and no wins in the past month. What of it? Is Ebay the only place to buy records in the entire universe? You have no idea what I buy or what I have in my collection and I don’t desire or need to get into that here. I will only say again that I KNEW of Seeing Red before this abortion of a chain of events. It’s very doubtful that you can say the same. Yet, you deem to question my knowledge of the genre and to make assumptions as to my worth as a collector and as a person? Nice conclusions you’re jumping to based merely on a person’s ebay feedback.

I’m going to wrap this up for now as I’m sure he’ll have more disparaging remarks to throw at me which I can respond to later. In conclusion, I’ll just say I hope this entire ordeal has been an education for anyone who is considering buying from him in the future.