Minimal Wave Records

The bottom line is people like deutschmark, and solvent come across as pathetic haters with issues by trying to bad mouth the Aspect Ratio cassette.

I know they both like it, because if they didn’t they would not of listened to it. 

It is o.k. you two., because there are a lot more people that like it! 
I can see them on my ebay

It reminds me of high school when people would mock depeche mode and joy division to me.  I would just think “whatever dude.  You are a loser”, and that’s is what I think at this moment of these two. 

I won’t include Falck with the other two, because when he implied that I can’t sing I took that as a great compliment!  I am however, looking forward to him telling me that making music is not creative and there is nothing about creating music that is creative.  Along with there are no creative aspects of the All the Madmen or Aspect Ratio releases, or the record label obscure identities. 

I’m going to sleep now.

Stephen

p.s. A Yamaha psr ?, I don’t have one.

p.s.s.  I have a feeling all 81 copies of the cassette are going to sell for at least $29.99  
and I bet solvent will try to get the last copy, but not if Deutschmark outbids him

p.s.s.  Do you think I should sell them to these two?  I’m not sure, because they like hurt my feelings so bad

I don’t know why but reading obscure’s “reasoning” that whoever doesn’t like his tape is a loser just made me think of that old joke where a guy is listening to a ghost rider warning on his car radio and he goes:

“Now watcha mean one? There’s bloody hundreds of them!”... :wink:

Hello there, i am a member of ATM (or should I say ex member,as we split in 1981). Our release has certainly caused some controversy on here! I am amazed that there is such an interest in this type of music, back in the day the inteest was almost nil - mind you, we didn’t have a world wide web then did we!!
Stephen approached me in 2006, after finding this site -  http://stokebeat.yolasite.com/  - and I agreed that he could release an album. I never thought it would see the light if day, but here it is. I cant believe it sells for $40 !! Perhaps I should dig out an old tape and do a run of 500 7” singles at £5 each. Do you think they would sell?

obscure never disappoints! The forum is a bit slow at the moment, but we have material for weeks in this one post. Just for starters:

“I know they both like it, because if they didn’t they would not of listened to it.”

How can anyone ever give a negative review to anything ever if that’s true? People listen to lots of stuff they don’t like, you need to listen to it to find out you don’t like it! Indeed, it is WHEN YOU LISTEN you find out that you don’t like it! I don’t know how much more they listened after they had heard enough to decide they didn’t like it.

I can tell you I listened to the one track on myspace, and I didn’t like it. The lack of any drum sounds at all is a serious drawback, the poor sound, bad singing, inept playing and clichéd songwriting are others. It’s awkward to listen to because I don’t know if it is an inept attempt at music-making or a nasty, shallow parody.

Cassette no. 1 didn’t sell, but there are bids for no. 2 and 3; getting rid of two cassettes of this stuff is better than many other bands who do things the normal way.

Oh, the release is nice, it’s just that the cover production is ridiculously expensive, the print run artificially small and the selling method ridiculous. Besides, obscure hasn’t made himself too many friends around here. 

[quote author=“madman1”]I am amazed that there is such an interest in this type of music, back in the day the inteest was almost nil - mind you, we didn’t have a world wide web then did we!!
Stephen approached me in 2006, after finding this site -  http://stokebeat.yolasite.com/  - and I agreed that he could release an album. I never thought it would see the light if day, but here it is. I cant believe it sells for $40 !! Perhaps I should dig out an old tape and do a run of 500 7” singles at £5 each. Do you think they would sell?

Got anything with clearer sound than the rehearsal cassette? 500 copies is a pretty large run these days, but there’s certainly a market for your band ...

Hello to you! I just wanted to get in here to say, the ‘controversy’ should certainly be taken as a compliment on the music - those who get annoyed over the LP would presumably not care if it wasn’t for the songs, you know… The song by All The Madmen on Cry Havoc is one of the legendary classics for us on this forum.

-ø-

hi madman1,

‘artificial shortage’ of the ATM LP is something that apparently caused much of this controversy.

i would like to buy the LP now but obviously I cannot; would have to wait and see if I would win the current ebay auction for the starting price (—would never give more, starting price is already too high!!!). if not, would have to wait for one more week, this is absurd for a new release!!!

cheers, profitis

Hello to you! I just wanted to get in here to say, the ‘controversy’ should certainly be taken as a compliment on the music - those who get annoyed over the LP would presumably not care if it wasn’t for the songs, you know…
-ø-

Sorry old chum, but bollocks to that!  :wink:

ATM surely put out some collectable minimal synth but Asparagus Ration most definitely did not, and they both cause a controversy here.

Plus, the Great Minimal Synth Swindle - the best minimal record ever, remember? - did cause a bit of a controversy although some feel it’s not the best bit of music they’ve ever heard in their lives.

So again the controversy has been caused by the ....*cough* “personality” of somebody obscure but unfortunately not invisible and is only remotely about the music.

I think it’s really sad when (yet another) band that made the mistake of getting entangled in the obscure universe has to live with the consequences and their music doesn’t get judged “normally” any more…

Here is a response to everyone else:

Profitis Said:

Why do you use ebay (having to pay their fees too) and you don’t sell them at a fixed price offline?

Dimitris, because this record is specifically for collectors, and I think pretty much all serious minimal synth collectors use ebay.  By auctioning each copy it allows each collector an opportunity at each copy.

I think this is what many do not like. The fact that also this new release is put on auction and one has to bid (even more) money to get a copy. Several people I know do not like ebay. Have you even thought of that?

Yes I have.  This way not only allows each collector a chance at each copy, but it also allows each collector a chance to get it sooner than everyone else.  It is simply paying for opportunities.  If I am a collector, and I want number 17 then I can get it, and If I am a collector, and I want the record next week I can get it. 
For the people that don’t use ebay they will have to if they want this release.  I don’t go to malls, but if there is a shoe store in the mall that has shoes I want then thats where I will go to get them.

Samen Said:

I like the concept of a collectable vinyl release and if I had the money (which I don’t have right now, having been on parental leave), I’d pay 39,99 USD for a copy. Certainly I’d like to pay less but the music instantly and the piece of vinyl itself eventually, surely is worth it, at least in my world.

I’m glad you do, because obscure identities is going to be putting out collectable minimal synth records specifically for collectors like yourself. 

Another dimension in this matter that I feel is a greater issue, is the fact that the band will most likely remain an obscurity. I think it would be fair to also release the music (perhaps not an exact version of the vinyls content, a la Hard Corps’ “Metal and Flesh”) on CD. A CD would probably also interest another audience and sell in larger quantities; both helping promote the band and hopefully get them some $$$ for their music, after all these years.

I can see your point here, but I’m definitely one with the opinion that minimal synth music is not akin to how christians treat religion, and shouldn’t be treated as such.  I don’t think anyone needs to try to spread it a la christians trying to spread the word of christ.  The people that do like it will find out about it via depeche mode/the internet, and so on, and become collectors.  It is now going on 14 years with the internet being mainstream, and there are currently roughly 100 collectors of this music out of a population of 6 billion.  No matter how much any labels try to promote it, and spread it like the gospel it has still remained very small.

Either way, it’s probably only a matter of time before this material will be found on an illegal download site… sigh.

Everything does these days.

Deutschmark Said:

have you ever heard of Kernkrach, for example? i can assure you they put much more effort in their sleeves than just hand assembling and spray painting and still their records cost as any other’s ones and they trade to vary their stock like all other labels do..

Yes, I have heard of Kernkrach.  Thanks for your assurance.  I wish them the best.

Spartak Said:

Glad to see you participate stephen, and for the transparency you offer.

I have no experience with releasing music on vinyl, but the price you mention seems to be pretty hefty, coming in at almost $10 per vinyl.
i’ve heard about minimum starting prices for which you get 500 copies so that’d mean a 100 copies are 5 times as expensive. I can understand people not wanting to press 500 in fear of not selling their stock, or even bringing the pressing down further to make it something collectable.
Choosing to press only 100 is pushing it a bit forcefully into that field Stephen while making cost of manufacturing needlessly high but alas that’s your decision.

Yes, it is my decision.  I think All the Madmen is one of the best U.K. minimal synth bands, and of course If I am going to do a record label I am going to do it the way I want which is to put out highly collectable, great records, with great packaging that is true to the time period of the release.
The band knows this is a real labor of love for me which I am very passionate about.

Your way of producing the sleeves also doesnt seem a very cost effective way and like deutschmark says there are labels doing very creative DIY cover art that does not seem to reflect in the selling price. Kernkrach did a fantastic job with that, every release a piece of art.
Then finally, ebay indeed asks money, but you dont accept any direct sales either so again this cost is indirectly transferred to the buyer.

It is not cost effective as I can see from the cost breakdown, but the way the sleeves and records came out is amazing so I have no complaints.  It looks like it was released in 1980, and that was my goal.

Ultimately all your choices inflated the cost of production to a certain pricepoint you probably thought was still acceptable to people. Pressing only 50 would have made the ebay selling price close to double what it is now. Not many people would want to pay that kind of amount for a new release.

I don’t think there is a person out there that cannot come up with $39.99 to buy this record.  I am providing more than adequate time, and complete opportunity to get each and every copy for every collector.  If one collector wanted to buy them all he could do that.  There are no other record labels like that.
The band members know that this would of been a $300 to $500 record if it had been released in 1980.  And to charge roughly one tenth that price and have it made as if it did come out in 1980 I don’t think there should be any complaints about the price of this record.  It is basically people being cheap because they want to go to a fancy restaurant, but want to pay Mcdonalds prices.  When you buy this record Kris you will understand what I mean.

For me, the current price, including shipping goes way beyond what i pay for any new release. Truth told, i think the MW releases are too expensive as well, making me more selective than i would have liked to be.

Kris, I don’t why, but you have a total poor persons mentality.  You act as though you can’t afford $20?  You are an architect not a homeless person.  The truth is you can afford anything you want you just have to figure out how.  That is my lesson to you. 

In the end, i’m just sad this release will only find its way into a handful of collectors that are willing to pay the price for it. This band deserves a wider audience. Hence my qualification in the previous post.

I started this record label to have records released specifically for collectors.  That is my target audience.  I don’t find anything sad about providing collectors with what they want.  I want people that cherish records to have them, not people that are drawn in through hype.  The truth is there is no larger audience no matter how much it is hyped.  I would say depeche mode is the band that completely encompasses the genre, and has taken care of a larger audience in one fell swoop.  The rest of the bands though I think are for the collectors that need more than just depeche mode.  However, there are a lot of people that say If I want to listen to a synth record I will just listen to depeche mode.

Pangolino Said:

Thanks for your response and clarity about your thoughts and processes. My feeling is that, while such music cannot be expected to appeal to a huge number of people (without a celebrity endorsement or something), and not wanting the curse of boxes of unsold records to fall on anyone, it’s a shame when this music is accessible more to collectors (and price speculators) than to a wider potential audience including young artists and musicians such as those who created this sort of music to begin with.* It’s a choice about who the music is meant for.

As I said to Spartak I think there is no shame in providing a record solely for collectors.  There are many record labels that try to provide to that wider potential audience, and as I posted above I believe that to be a futile effort. Obscure Identities is not for that cause.  I am for providing records to the people that want them.

Annalogue Said:

I understand we do live on the same planet but in too different worlds. I do not want to be part of your world, so please excuse me for crashing into it, it was my own fault, so I recede.

I think that is a smart move on your part.  Now you can think about how hostile, and abusive you were to me.  Bad mouthing the All the Madmen release on this forum, and trying to get it for cheap to make money were just simply not cool.  Not to mention you calling me money hungry when you full well know the profit for each release you put out is at least $5000 more than for each release I wll put out.  I think the most downright dastardly thing you did was to try to deter other bands from my label by calling it a trap.  I know you know all these things you did were wrong, and I know why you did it which is obviously pure jealousy.  So those are some issues you will have to deal with in regards to yourself.

I also know that you want the All the Madmen LP.

So if you buy it I will sell it to you. 

It is as simple as that.

Bjakk Said:

Collector’s value is what people are willing to pay for something, basically. Even with the artificial shortage, these aren’t actually worth 100 dollars, since no one wanted to pay that much. How much is it worth? There is one copy on ebay every week, and the starting bid is around forty dollars. The first copy went for 41 dollars.

The All the Madmen copy 01 is worth more than $100 right now maybe even more.  The reason.  It is 01 of 80 available copies, and it is now forever unavailable becauses a true collector won it.

Also, I am not providining an “artificial shortage”.  I am providing an “accurate supply”.

That means only two collectors tried to get their copy this week, the other one will get his copy next week. After that, who knows how many you’ll be able to get rid of! The record industry is a harsh place, there are lots of records that no one wants.

I think that all 80 copies will sell, and there will be 80 happy collectors out there after they get them.

Well, whaddaya know. Both releases sold. The second vinyl went for $48, with four bids, and the second cassette went for 30.99, with two bids. This may be a workable business model after all, but I hope not; it’s too expensive and takes too much time, both for the band, the label and the prospective buyers. There are 78 weeks to go of this!

Yes it is a workable business model.  There are actually endless weeks to go, because I have many more releases coming.

BioKlastik Said:

inflated prices are a bad trend.

The price of the All the Madmen and Aspect Ratio releases are not inflated. 
They are accurate.

A Trend is when a lot of people start to do something. 

I wouldn’t call obscure identities a trend setter or trendy.

It is one record label.

Minicold Said:

Pure commercially, I think it’s a way of working that could turn out fine for the seller. If all the costs (production + band) are already paid, the only person that still needs his money, is the seller. And if the seller can wait more than one year to get his investment back (with a nice margin), than it’s more advantageous than putting your money on a bank account. Thereabove, by posting here, the seller gets free marketing support and the price can only go up. Don’t forget that the music for itself is, in my humble opinion, very good, so it’s not as if the seller tries to sell hip hop for minimal synth.

All I can think from this response is that minicold is an honest and cool person that I would like to know.  Instead of spewing hatred, complaints, and pettiness he actually looks at obscure identiteis approach for what it is and understands it.  I also appreciate his praise of the labels music.  I believe minicold to be a person with great taste and a good mind.

I understand both opinions in these matters, but, after all, aren’t we all guilty ? I mean, when I buy records directly from the labels, it’s the only time that I don’t feel ripped off. But, how many times did I already try to buy or trade stuff from “collegue-collectors” and how many times do we ALL get the feeling afterwards that the seller tries to get the maximum of money out of this trade/transaction ? Very normal, I would say, everybody tries to pay the least of money for the maximum of vinyl. So, if a seller tries to do what we, re-sellers, are trying to do, I can live with that. Okay, it’s not the most “buyer friendly” way of working, but I can understand it. (This does NOT mean that I approve this way of working).

Even more honesty.  This guy is just totally cool.

Fico Said:

those ebay auction descriptions are priceless…!

So not only will you be getting one of the best minimal synth records ever when you buy obscure identities records you are also getting something that is priceless for free!

Obscure Identities label

Hi All - I was also a member of ATM ( Hi Jens , Hi Kriss ) and I would like to say that , after 30 years , a Bloke I have never met(Hi Stephen) was very keen to release (on Vinyl - the Best format) some long forgotten music that I was closely involved with. That - to me was a major shock ! The fact that this music made it to record is a minor miracle considering it hardly made a ripple back in the day .For that , Stephen , I thank you whole heartedly .Sure , I would prefer more records pressed and sold (100,000?) however this is clearly a non starter ! I hope you can all get a copy of the ATM LP , one way or another ! Regards all , and take care !  8O

first of all, congratulations to minicold! we all are incredibly happy that somebody here got the credit he deserved from the mighty KoLLeKtoR #1 in the galaxy

second, to make myself clear (i hope for the last time)...

okay, we all know All The Madmen, and although it’s not up my street, i can understand that somebody might bid for it because it’s kinda sought after or something. but hey, right next to that you sell the same way your own tape which nobody ever heard of before and basically nobody gives a shit about - it’s just presumptuous, isn’t it?

all the best to all the true collectors,

poor and envious Nik

And here are some more responses

Fulck said:

“Now watcha mean one? There’s bloody hundreds of them!”...

Fulck.  I know you are a little slow.  So I will give you some extra special help.

My reasoning is not that anyone that doesn’t like my tape is a loser.  There are obviously going to be people that don’t like it.

My statement was that anyone that mocks minimal synth as a parody is a loser.

A person can mock every single band from the last 30 years pretty much and say it is a parody of another band.

I could say Joy Division were a Doors and Kraftwerk parody etc etc. 

Basically anyone that goes out of there way to discredit someone or something do so for reasons of envy or jealousy. 
Regardless that person has issues to deal with that they are not dealing with correctly.

Bjakk said:

obscure never disappoints!

Everyone that buys the All the Madmen and Aspect Ratio cassette are sure to see that fact!

How can anyone ever give a negative review to anything ever if that’s true? People listen to lots of stuff they don’t like, you need to listen to it to find out you don’t like it! Indeed, it is WHEN YOU LISTEN you find out that you don’t like it! I don’t know how much more they listened after they had heard enough to decide they didn’t like it.

I don’t listen to stuff I don’t like.  I can usually tell in the first 5 seconds if I like something or not.  And since they got far enough to hear the vocals then I would infer that they obviously like the music enough to get that far.  If they don’t like Joy Division or Transparent Illusion, or Pulp, or The Doors then the tape is definitely not meant for them because I would say those 4 bands are the main inifluences, and also No More on the song “Junkie”. 

I can tell you I listened to the one track on myspace, and I didn’t like it. The lack of any drum sounds at all is a serious drawback, the poor sound, bad singing, inept playing and clichéd songwriting are others. It’s awkward to listen to because I don’t know if it is an inept attempt at music-making or a nasty, shallow parody.

I love this review!!!!  I might have it printed and have it framed on my wall.  It totally made my day, and seems to be creating more interest in the band, because a lot more people have it on their favourites items on ebay today than did yesterday.

This cassette is my first release.  I made it with a broken $30 keyboard I found next to a dumpster.  I recorded 17 songs in 3 weeks on a 4 track recorder with only 2 tracks. 

I basically made the best with what I had.  I collect u.k. diy synth records, and for you to say it has poor sound
bad singing
inept playing
and cliched songwriting

is simply outstanding.  I could not ask for more.  But you gave me more

Then you said it made you feel awkward when listening to it  

I can not thank you enough.  That is seriously everything I could ever want from a listener, and I am not being facetious at all.

My intention in the future is definitely to get some serious gear, and blow everyone away, but considering of what I had and the interest this cassette has gotten I am very pleased.  There are almost as many people watching it as the All the Madmen LP, and I consider the All the Madmen LP to be one of the top minimal synth records ever released. 

Cassette no. 1 didn’t sell, but there are bids for no. 2 and 3; getting rid of two cassettes of this stuff is better than many other bands who do things the normal way.

You are to kind.

Oh, the release is nice,

Thankyou.  Seriously are you trying to get on the friends list.

it’s just that the cover production is ridiculously expensive, the print run artificially small and the selling method ridiculous.

I will have this framed next to the Aspect Ratio review.  Simply outstanding.  I also think I might make you my new pr guy. 

Besides, obscure hasn’t made himself too many friends around here.

There out there, but the haters are more verbose. 

Got anything with clearer sound than the rehearsal cassette? 500 copies is a pretty large run these days, but there’s certainly a market for your band ...

And that market consists of about 100 people. 

Reactorlgtn said:

-ø-

That is definitely the truth.  If there was no interest in the All the Madmen or Aspect Ratio releases nothing would be said about them.  I have seen many labels and people post their releases on this forum with absolutely no response whatsoever.  The controversy surrounding obscure identities releases are probably the best thing that anyone could ask for in terms of publicity.  Since this thread started way more people have been watching both the auctions.

Profitis Said:

‘artificial shortage’ of the ATM LP is something that apparently caused much of this controversy.

It is an “accurate supply”, but you deeming it an “artificial shortage” does help the controversy as well as the interest.

i would like to buy the LP now but obviously I cannot; would have to wait and see if I would win the current ebay auction for the starting price (—would never give more, starting price is already too high!!!). if not, would have to wait for one more week, this is absurd for a new release!!!

cheers, profitis

Dimitri,  You outbid me for the Goats tape last year at $450.  I started laughing when you said you can’t afford this price.  You have made me pay over $200 for many records on ebay, and have outbid me a fair share of times as well at over $100 items.
Anyway, I’m sure you’ll figure out the $40.00 for this release, and I’m sure you’ll like it.

Fulck said:

ATM surely put out some collectable minimal synth but Asparagus Ration most definitely did not, and they both cause a controversy here.

All the Madmen never released any records.  That is clearly stated in the auction.  I know you are a bit slow fulck so I am reiterating.

Plus, the Great Minimal Synth Swindle - the best minimal record ever, remember? - did cause a bit of a controversy although some feel it’s not the best bit of music they’ve ever heard in their lives.

Is that in reference to the Seeing Red 7”.  I don’t think I have ever seen another copy sold since my listing last year.  When you compared it to a $5 record was when I determined that nothing that you post has any crediblity.  It is usually you acting as the town jester. Trying to annoy, poke fun at, and the sad thing is that that is your life.  You are always on here. 

So again the controversy has been caused by the ....*cough* “personality” of somebody obscure but unfortunately not invisible and is only remotely about the music.

Another picture framer!!!  I am all about the music fulck. 

I think it’s really sad when (yet another) band that made the mistake of getting entangled in the obscure universe has to live with the consequences and their music doesn’t get judged “normally” any more…

I think that everyone that likes the music that the band All the Madmen made in 1980 will buy this record. 

I did not entangle the band in anything.  I have made their and my dream a reality with simply an amazing release.

Dimitri, You outbid me for the Goats tape last year at $450. I started laughing when you said you can’t afford this price. You have made me pay over $200 for many records on ebay, and have outbid me a fair share of times as well at over $100 items.
Anyway, I’m sure you’ll figure out the $40.00 for this release, and I’m sure you’ll like it.

i am a real fan of the specific label and although not reasonable, I would spend this amount again on their releases. but apparently not on current releases.

it seems you have misunderstood when i said:

i would like to buy the LP now but obviously I cannot;...

apparently i’m referring to the ATM LP not being available offline, out of ebay, ready to be ordered NOW. where did I say I do not have $40?

So, if I don’t want to pay a considerable amount of money for a record that is released in a deliberate small run, I am not a true collector? Good, I am only here for the music.

I think most of us here buy minimal wave/synth because we firstly like the music, not because we consider these more or less rare records as an investment. From all your replies obscure, you strike me as someone who is only it for the money and status as a “true collector”, not for the music itself…
The saddest part about that is that 99,999999999999999999999% of the world population have never heard of “minimal synth”, so who are you trying to impress? Surely not those couple of thousands that do know about “minimal synth”?
8O

Re: Obscure Identities label

[quote author=“MadMan2”]Hi All - I was also a member of ATM ( Hi Jens , Hi Kriss ) and I would like to say that , after 30 years , a Bloke I have never met(Hi Stephen) was very keen to release (on Vinyl - the Best format) some long forgotten music that I was closely involved with. That - to me was a major shock ! The fact that this music made it to record is a minor miracle considering it hardly made a ripple back in the day .For that , Stephen , I thank you whole heartedly .Sure , I would prefer more records pressed and sold (100,000?) however this is clearly a non starter ! I hope you can all get a copy of the ATM LP , one way or another ! Regards all , and take care !  8O

Provided that you are who you claim…. 8) .....reading this thread, you still feel confident you backed the right horse? Not feeling a tinsy-winsy bit used by a little boy with a god-complex?  :wink: