Minimal Wave Records

am i the only one who is totally turned off by this label’s approach?:

http://www.myspace.com/obscureidentities

http://cgi.ebay.com/kbd-diy-u-k-minimal-synth-punk-ALL-MADMEN-listen-/170531000345?pt=Music_on_Vinyl

http://cgi.ebay.com/kbd-diy-u-s-minimal-synth-punk-ASPECT-RATIO-listen-/170531002868?pt=Music_on_Vinyl

——about this Aspect Ratio tape… most new artists would be lucky to sell 100 copies of a tape for $5 - where does this guy get off auctioning his @ $29.99 opening bid!? that and the fact that this is practically a minimal synth spoof

well, here is turned-off-guy #2

well, i am interested in this music, that’s why i asked Stephen for a trade as, of course, i do not agree with his “label policy” (can it even be called that way?) and i am not spending at least USD 39,99 PLUS postage on a new record. but on top of this i was missing the words when he made my messages including my private data including full name and email address PUBLIC on ebay! even more turning me so off! erhm, is this done by purpose btw, or is somebody really [word edited by myself] here?

i am so sorry for the bands that fall into this trap. let’s do some simple maths:

he’s done 100 copies, selling 80 of them at - at least - USD 39,99

80 * USD 39.99 = USD 3,199.20.

now he says he is using that money for future releases, erhm, again some maths: if this works out, then you can like finance 3 releases from one, like in a snowball effect, how shall this work. so, what will he do with all that money in reality?

oh my god, my poor heart ... i do not wanna go on thinking about this nonsense, better erase this from my mind.

only again, i am so sorry for the bands (in my message i told Stephen, that i and other mail orders would have been happy to help him distributing his records and the music in general).

as always nothing but a rip-off and money-making. but like in earlier discussions it is not about helping the bands or the music genre, it is about his beloved term “collector” and his only god: money.

hey Stephen - as you imply the money will not end up in your own pocket, you can donate the over-earned money to our pet sanctuary for senior dogs, i am happy to provide you with the email-address for a paypal payment right away!

okay, enough of that, and given this enough platform now. erazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

i bet wickeddolly93 (or 69 or whatever) is a financial officer of the label !

I also agree that price is very high for a new release, actually double the price of all other releases from our days.

Reducing the price will attract more people and will sell faster…. making it an OOP and collectors item sooner

I will then buy the All the Madmen LP for sure.

It’s interesting because usually such inflated prices do not benefit the label or artists but only collectors and / or speculators. So in this way it’s not so bad if one accepts that a price inflation is inevitable. What is difficult for me is the implication that this has become a rich man’s music, and realizing that the more people accept and adapt to it being that way, the more true it becomes.

I was excited for the ATMM release but the way of selling is really lame and you need to pay full shipping for one item no way to combine. Not to mention the starting price.

mr obscure is nothing if not a master of controversy.

As we all know, it is expensive to press quality vinyl, but that pricepoint is absurd…

Here is my response to all of you:

Solvent Said:

where does this guy get off auctioning his @ $29.99 opening bid!?

I can sell anything I want for how much ever I want, and so can anyone else.
This is the truth.  Your self righteousness comes accross as arrogant and absurd, and is most likely not truly what you believe.

that and the fact that this is practically a minimal synth spoof

There are plenty of people with it on their favourites items to watch on ebay so I would say your opinion is in the minority! as well as it being a cheap shot that you obviously know is false.  Do you want me to start putting down quotes of what other people have said about the release?  And these are people whose musical taste I respect.

Marc Said:

well, i am interested in this music, that’s why i asked Stephen for a trade as, of course, i do not agree with his “label policy” (can it even be called that way?)

Marc, you asked me for a few trades so you could sell the release in your shop and make money off of it with virtually no cost to yourself.  Since I didn’t aggree to the trade which was in essence you using me to make money now you bad mouth me and my release on a public forum.  Do you think that these traits that you just exposed are respectable?

and i am not spending at least USD 39,99 PLUS postage on a new record.

This is obviously false, especially if you own any Vinyl on Demand releases.
However, according to your operating procedures you probably worked out a trade on those.

but on top of this i was missing the words when he made my messages including my private data including full name and email address PUBLIC on ebay! even more turning me so off! erhm, is this done by purpose btw, or is somebody really [word edited by myself] here?

You asked a question, and the answer had relevant information to buyers so why wouldn’t I post it.

i am so sorry for the bands that fall into this trap. let’s do some simple maths:

Why are you sorry for a band to get their record released in the correct packaging, and the correct number?  You have not even seen the release yet, and for you to bad mouth it, and the record label has no merit.

he’s done 100 copies, selling 80 of them at - at least - USD 39,99

now he says he is using that money for future releases, erhm, again some maths: if this works out, then you can like finance 3 releases from one, like in a snowball effect, how shall this work. so, what will he do with all that money in reality?

Marc, Here is all the cost for the record which does not include time involved making it.

100 vinyl records pressed                           $963.41
Label Paper for 100 sleeves                         $200.00
Insert Paper                                         $8.24
Prints of 100 sleeves on label paper and 100 inserts   $250.00
Paper for Inner Labels                               $72.79
Prints of 100 labels                                   $120.00
Automatic Number Stamp and Custom Stamp Kit     $70.00
Electric Tape                                       $205.60(Each tape set only last for 5 sleeves.  A tape set is $10.28 )
Metal Ruler                                         $4.49
Exacto Knife/Cutting Pad                             $8.99
Spray Paint                                         $224.75 (one can only lasts for 4 sleeves.  Each can is 7.99)
100 old record sleeves                             $100

Total cost was                                     $2,228.27

If they all sold for $39.99 the total sales will be     $3199.20

Subtract the cost then the total profit is             $970.93

and that is over the course of 80 weeks.  Which equals $12.13 per week.

oh my god, my poor heart ... i do not wanna go on thinking about this nonsense, better erase this from my mind.

If you wanted this record and liked this record you would spend $39.99 on it that is the bottom line.  If you want to use me to make money for yourself I will not allow that.

only again, i am so sorry for the bands (in my message i told Stephen, that i and other mail orders would have been happy to help him distributing his records and the music in general).

Marc who says you can’t distribute it.  Buy one of the copies, and put it on your site.

as always nothing but a rip-off and money-making. but like in earlier discussions it is not about helping the bands or the music genre, it is about his beloved term “collector” and his only god: money.

This could not be further from the truth as the cost breakdown above shows.
If I wanted to make money from a release I would do what Marc does, and press 500 copies at a cost of $2000 to $3000.  Then I would sell $500 at $18 per copy, and if they sell out I would make $6000.00   That is more than $5000 more than the All the Madmen release profit and you say that I am only out to make money?!  However I know as most of us do there are not more than 100 minimal synth collectors let alone 500.  I made this record specifically for collectors like myself.  Everyone knows I do not buy any reissues, and the main reason for that is how they are made.  I wanted to make a record that I would want.  Anyone that buys the All the Madmen LP will understand what I am talking about.

hey Stephen - as you imply the money will not end up in your own pocket, you can donate the over-earned money to our pet sanctuary for senior dogs, i am happy to provide you with the email-address for a paypal payment right away!

That is not of interest to me Marc, but you can certainly put the $5000/$6000 you make off of the Transparent Illusion LP into that charity.

Deutschmark Said:

i bet wickeddolly93 (or 69 or whatever) is a financial officer of the label !

That could not be further from the truth.  Marcus/Tina actually got me to pay for something with a personal payment on pay pal, and I am not very happy about it.  The item never arrived, and the email responses stopped.  So there goes $177.00 of my money which helped to delay this release a little.  So be warned NEVER send personal payments with Pay Pal.  You can not file an item not received claim if you do, and you will never get your money back.

Profitis Said:

I also agree that price is very high for a new release, actually double the price of all other releases from our days.

I will then buy the All the Madmen LP for sure.

Dimitri,  This record is not like any other record currently being released.  All the Sleeeves are hand assembled, and spray painted, and as you can see from the picture it is being released exactly as it should be with the DIY aesthetics of early U.K. records.  All the copies are numbered, and of course the lower numbered copies will be sold for more.  Originally I thought to lower the price to $19.99 after the first 20 copies are sold which are the rarest, but after I just went over the cost today because one of the band members informed me about these complaints on this forum I see that that would not be very reasonable.  Dimitri, If anyone likes this record you will.  It is made specifically for You, Joerg, Jens L, Jens C., Nils, Oystein, Francesc, and all the other collectors that deserve it. 
Pangolino said:

It’s interesting because usually such inflated prices do not benefit the label or artists but only collectors and / or speculators. So in this way it’s not so bad if one accepts that a price inflation is inevitable. What is difficult for me is the implication that this has become a rich man’s music, and realizing that the more people accept and adapt to it being that way, the more true it becomes.

I would not consider $39.99 a rich man’s music at all.  I have bought four records in the last month that were over $200.  With that you might have an argument, but $39.99 is a fair price for an 80 press record.  Definitely, because every copy that is sold is going to go up in value.  So everyone that buys it will have made money from the investment.  With a 500 press record I would not say the same. 

Spartak Said:

I was excited for the ATMM release but the way of selling is really lame and you need to pay full shipping for one item no way to combine. Not to mention the starting price.

Kris, I actually based the price on your budget, because I know you don’t spend more than $50 for a record.  Anyway, I would not consider the way it is sold lame.  It is different from all the other labels, but it is not lame.  It gives each collector an oppotunity to get each copy.  I am very straight forward and honest on the ebay listing.  Everyone knows where to get it, how much it costs, and how long it will be available.  If I was going to be shady I wouldn’t of let any of that be known.  Anyway, you should get the record Kris I know you will like it, and it is definitely worth more than $39.99. 

Teachu2die Said:

mr obscure is nothing if not a master of controversy.

I don’t know if I am the master of it.  All I can say is I am being honest, and straight forward with this release, and selling it for an accurate price.
If that causes controvery then there is nothing I can do about that.  I put a ton of my own money and time to make this record possible, and I did it purely for my love of this music, and my craving to see a record be released correctly in terms of packaging and quantity etc.  This record is specifically for minimal synth collectors.  Anyone who buys it will be one.

Sinewave93 Said:

As we all know, it is expensive to press quality vinyl, but that pricepoint is absurd…

As you can see from the cost break down it is not.

I have to admit that you did honestly confront every statement made in this thread.  I understand your price breakdown. I don’t completely agree about the statement made about “if you want to make money, make 500 copies”.  I just started in this business, but I assure you my profit for 500 records is barely over yours for 100 copies.  Granted, I like to move the records and use USA and EU distros for lower wholesale prices.  If I sold them all retail at 21 bucks, my profits would soar but that would take eons…

Interesting discussion, nonetheless.

teachu2die,

There is nothing funny about that statement.  It is the truth.

Sinewave93,

I like your response and i respect it.  I’m sure you understand the underlying premise that the goal of pressing 500 is to sell 500 and make $6000.  This might not be the actuality, because as I noted before the market for minimal synth records is very small, but that is the intension.

——————————————————————————————————————————

Also, in the last post I forgot two other costs that bring my profit down even more.
Ebay fees and Pay Pal fees which is 7% combined. 

So if I do sell all of them for $3199.20

then I have to subtract 7% from those sales which is $223.95

That brings my previous profit of $970.93 down $223.95

to $746.98 over the course of 80 weeks which equals $9.33 a week.

I think the only people that are going to make money from my release are the ones that buy it.  The first copy that just sold for $41.00 is now worth over $100 instantly.  It is number 1 of 80 copies of one of the best minimal synth records ever released, and the person that won it was very very smart to do so. 

Stephen
obscure identities

Stephen,

Thanks for your replies, but I still have one question:

Why do you use ebay (having to pay their fees too) and you don’t sell them at a fixed price offline?

I think this is what many do not like. The fact that also this new release is put on auction and one has to bid (even more) money to get a copy. Several people I know do not like ebay. Have you even thought of that?

Are there any other reasons for doing so?

Thanks, Dimitris

I like the concept of a collectable vinyl release and if I had the money (which I don’t have right now, having been on parental leave), I’d pay 39,99 USD for a copy. Certainly I’d like to pay less but the music instantly and the piece of vinyl itself eventually, surely is worth it, at least in my world.

Another dimension in this matter that I feel is a greater issue, is the fact that the band will most likely remain an obscurity. I think it would be fair to also release the music (perhaps not an exact version of the vinyls content, a la Hard Corps’ “Metal and Flesh”) on CD. A CD would probably also interest another audience and sell in larger quantities; both helping promote the band and hopefully get them some $$$ for their music, after all these years.

Either way, it’s probably only a matter of time before this material will be found on an illegal download site… sigh.

Hey Samen,

Reading your response here I’m afraid to say I think you’ve got your starting point all wrong:

It sounds like you still think this is about obscure being catalyst for bands to become more “famous”, while it is more than obvious that this is again only about the “fame” and purse of one person.

I’m afraid to say as a band, you have to be really really naive to opt for obscure while there are so many great labels out there who also care for the artists.

From the looks of it, Mr. Minimal Synth Pauper has finally run out of crates he can buy for pennies - well, now he’s making his own rarities. And Ebay is of course the platform of choice as this funny little calculation he posted above only applies to the starting bid of course.  8)

But hey, some of us live in more or less free countries so the choice is yours.

Personally howvever, I think purchasing ANYTHING from obscure is like paying stupidity tax with not a single tax collector around….  :wink:

[quote author=“obscure”]This record is not like any other record currently being released.  All the Sleeeves are hand assembled, and spray painted, and as you can see from the picture it is being released exactly as it should be with the DIY aesthetics of early U.K. records.

have you ever heard of Kernkrach, for example? i can assure you they put much more effort in their sleeves than just hand assembling and spray painting and still their records cost as any other’s ones and they trade to vary their stock like all other labels do…