Minimal Wave Records

The answer is very easy: because they dont ship outside NL.

I already tried to buy from them but it was not possible - Ive still the email saved from 2006

“Dear Alessandro,
Although I would very much like to help you, due to rights clearances Fonos is unfortunately not allowed to sell its CD’s to non-Dutch consumers.
Scusi,
Kind regards
Machgiel Bakker
Fonos.nl”

@ reactorlgtn

Why are u “demonizing” the blogs and you dont talk about the P2P programs? It’s pretty much the same. Share on net is share on net.

And about…“I’ve sometimes heard the music on mp3, but not liked it that much, but when I later get the vinyl I find the music grows on me too.”..is like to discover the hot water. A compressed file will never be like an original one. And it should not be in fact. The mp3 is a DATA FILE - and i personally threat it like this. Is a DATA into a pc. Anyway im totally agree with what you said about the ‘context’, but i think it was implicit for a community of “fetish” buyers/collectors.

In fact, can you please tell me which is the sense/use of the mp3s? For me they got a (in randomic order):

1) preview function (i listen, then i buy)
2) facility function (why i have to destroy my vinyls and tapes - an heavy use will damage the records - every time i want to listen some music?)
3) learning function

it’s simply the USE that every person is doing that it changes the context at all, a line between an intelligent and a stupid use.

Maybe im only idealist, i dont know..

[quote author=“ton”][quote author=“peter_m”]The answer is very easy: because they dont ship outside NL.

Well, I am sure you know some people from NL to help you with this :wink:
I don’t think this is a good reason.
There must be other reasons why they are not so popular.

This is not a good or bad reason, this is simply a limit. And a very big limit - i would like to know which label could be able to survive shipping and selling only inside its own country…is not possible, c’mon Ton. If they dont ship outside the NL, who is able to buy?
Personally, i have no friends in NL at all, not even a far italian cousin eating spaghetti/pizza all the day

Anyway im not a big fan of CDs at all, i prefer to buy directly the vinyls

[quote author=“ton”][quote author=“peter_m”]The answer is very easy: because they dont ship outside NL.

So anybody in NL can start an ebay shop selling these Fonos releases to the world and make good money ?
Besides that: Only 3 copies sold in NL by Fonos itself despite this “enourmous” need for the music by music lovers ?
[quote author=“peter_m”]Anyway im not a big fan of CDs at all, i prefer to buy directly the vinyls

Ah ! That sounds like the real reason.
And I can asume from your previous posts you prefer the mp3 from the internet above the CD even ?

Ton, you asked me why they sold only 3 Cds, the fact that they dont ship outside NL for me is a good reason. I dunno what add else, really.
I saw some few times these Cds on Ebay going for expensive prices - anyway i dont want to talk about prices, market on Ebay, or whatever. I really dont care of it.

Then, about MP3s, i just explained which is my position about. OF COURSE, i prefer CDs than Mp3s. Read up, you are missing a passage.

Sorry to skip back a few posts here, but y’know. A guy has to sleep at nights, else we get very cross in the morning and wont play

[quote author=“peter_m”]Why are u “demonizing” the blogs and you dont talk about the P2P programs? It’s pretty much the same. Share on net is share on net.

Demonizing is a strong word… Certainly, share is share. It simply didn’t occur to me, I don’t use p2p much. I am aware that brilliant stuff is found on slsk for instance, it just… well I get so much music to go through each time someone posts a link to their new blog here, yeah?

In fact, can you please tell me which is the sense/use of the mp3s? For me they got a (in randomic order):

1) preview function (i listen, then i buy)
2) facility function (why i have to destroy my vinyls and tapes - an heavy use will damage the records - every time i want to listen some music?)
3) learning function

it’s simply the USE that every person is doing that it changes the context at all, a line between an intelligent and a stupid use.

Let’s see…

While I don’t object to the uses you find for mp3s, my problem with 1) was clearly mentioned - viz, that I sometimes get disappointed with the data files. 2) I use rather heavily. 3… well, it’s pretty connected to 1 imo, but stuff like the flexipop bootleg collection has its function here. I like some of those songs, so probably there’s more there which I’ll like if I hear them.

As to what is intelligent and what is stupid… I don’t suppose paying $$$ on ebay for rare vinyls is more intelligent than DL’ing the music to your ipod and dancing to it in the streets?

[quote author=“reactorlgtn”]

As to what is intelligent and what is stupid… I don’t suppose paying $$$ on ebay for rare vinyls is more intelligent than DL’ing the music to your ipod and dancing to it in the streets?

Im totally agree, in fact im not buying so much on Ebay, i prefer to search the records directly from the flea markets and shops or from mailorders with good prices only, like Annalogue.

And the topic of the price anyway is also relative: for you and me, 200 euros is a crazy price, for another person are a kind of “nuts”..

I was going to write something long and sweeping but I have to go to work now.

So, I just wanted to address the analogy put forth way back in this topic:

that posting a digital reproduction of music on a blog and only removing it when asked is akin to breaking into a home and only leaving when asked.

I don’t think this is a particularly good analogy for what is occurring.

Maybe it would be more accurate to say that you created and sold at a reasonable rate 1000 exact REAL copies of your home in the hopes that someone would use them, and perhaps recognize YOU for doing so.

20 years later a person found a way to make a very nearly identical version of one of these homes out of cardboard.  You couldn’t really use the appliances or FEEL the carpet, but you had the general sense that you were in the house when using this copy of the home.

When you discover that people are offering for free, to the 2500 people worldwide that want them, copies of this nearly indistinguishable cardboard house you ask(tell?) them to stop distributing that because it is your house.

But in fact it is not really your house, it’s a facsimile of something you decided, however foolishly, to foist upon the world of people into which you were born.

But you say, “I created the ESSENCE of that thing! I deserve total control and all rewards or consequences of that thing!”.  And the only answer I can offer for that is, then why have you given it to us, and where have you been all these years?

No, in reality most of us would probably say “No problem, I understand, now that you’ve reasserted yourself to exert your rightful control, I’ll help by no longer offering these facsimiles.”

And what’s so direspectful, naive, or unreasonable about that?

:?

Im curious to know if the online radio shows (also East Village runned by Veronica, so she can give us a direct testimony) are with original cds/vinyls/k7s or with mp3s downloaded from blogs/p2p or simply ripped..

Who created the Flexi and NWComplex compilations should tell to Ton what happened really in the last 5-6 years and why now bands such Ensemble Pittoresque are more “famous” (we are anyway talking of a closed circle of persons, some thousands maximum) than in the 80’s.

Is so difficoult to be honest in this world? Anyway i will not answer to your provocations, Ton (‘Better world my ass. Good attitude my ass.’). For me, the topic ends here - it’s seriously useless to continue on this way.

I really fail to see the point you have if any.

Whether the beef is about money, or taking a moralistic high ground from an admittedly hypocritical point of view.

The judgements are large and sweeping but also myopic and tiresome.

Nobody is convinced and the horse is pretty much dead.

i downloaded it.

Hell, I own a mint condition copy of Iko ‘83 and I still downloaded this so I don’t have to wear it out and can listen to it on the bus and anywhere I go. Thx.

Ton, don’t assume that anyone that would download your record would actually want to buy it. 99.9% of what I find on the internet in whatever genre I wouldn’t pay two cents for. But that .1% has cost me a lot of money over the past few years for albums and singles that I have to have but wouldn’t have known about otherwise.

Ok, I’m seeing good points on both sides of this debate.
Here’s my 2 cents;

With hard to find vinyl, tapes, cd’s it’s easy to be unethical,
and rip it to mp3. If it wasn’t for the unofficial release of some
music, I wouldn’t be knowing of it. I bought some tapes of Alu (Live).
I paid a solid price , but they aren’t original tapes. But it’s more then ‘ok’ because I’d rather have something, then to have nothing.
- It is a shame that artists lose some control over their ‘‘own’’ material,
but I’d say the good outweighs the bad. the listeners, with tell each other and share these bands… and that will mean more exposure, free of charge for the artist, that must count for something?
- I personally don’t have problem with bootlegs or mp3’s.
However, if someone here doesn’t like Ton’s opinions…
then they cannot say bad things about “bootlegging”,
that would be pretty hypocritical. Because both ‘ARE’
taking/using without asking the aritst.
- As for downloads or blog files… it does take away from CD and record sales.
But this is 2008… and that’s how things are done.
Love it or leave it, internet is here to stay
but it wont EVER take us over.  :wink:
- I’d say,
“We all get burned, that’s life”.
- ‘‘Take it with a grain of salt’‘.