Minimal Wave Records

I have a query about reel to reel tape recorders - hope it is ok asking it here?

I sent an old reel to reel tape recently to someone who could transfer it to cd.  I was worried about the tape being degraded but the guy told me it had transfered fine and sent me the cd back.  The tape is quarter inch 7.5ips 2 track and had 2 songs on it.  I remeber that the engineer had taken a strip of tape from 2 different reels and used one for each songvand joined them together.

When I played the first track of the cd I was shocked to hear bass and drums playing at half speed and my music could just be heard but at low volume.  The second track sounded very clean (which was good) but maybe a bit quieter than I would have expected.  So at least the tape hadn’t lost its oxide or anything.

So I guessed that the first strip of tape the engineer had used was second hand and had maybe been used on a 15ips multi track before and I guessed that the second track must have been on unused tape.

My main question is does anyone with experience of reel to reel recorders (I have none) know if I am likely to be able to save that first track?

I wondered if maybe the reel to reel tape player that tha guy used was not aligned with my tape and it if was the bass and drums would magically disappear and all would be well (and maybe then the second track would sound better also), but I am not sure if that kind of alignment of a head is possible (or easily done).

My fear is that maybe the bass and drums that were originally on the tape had somehow leaked over the top of my track in which case I am completely lost.  Does anyone know if it is possible for this to happen?

Anyway the question is not really about minimal synth instruments as such, but it is synth music on the tape, so if anyone knows any answers I would be very very grateful. 

Thanks in advance.

its possible it leaked through. depends on what type of audio tape you used. if its a high fi low noise instead of a low print you may get a subtle leak. time and conditions of storage play a big part in this. but if the second track was fine, then I dont see why the first would be different unless a totally diffferent tape was used. you would know when these were recorded and on what equipment, coloration,etc.. it may also sound like a misaligned head but this is unlikely, especially if an engineer making the transfer is doing it. what was his explanation? also dolby filters may take away hiss but also cut down on overall high end on an old recording. it is best to use a wide range eq to cut the desired frequency. do you happen to have a sound clip of the recording in question? you mentioned the drum and bass sound at half speed..is this because you hear a different drum that wasnt originally recorded there?. does the music sound at half speed as well?

Thanks very much for replying so quickly.

I am going to try and post a clip of this somewhere and I will add a link once I’ve done it.

The drums and bass that are there are nothing to do with the music I recorded and they are much louder than what I recorded.  You can’t even hear my music until the singing starts.

The tape has 2 songs on it and when the engineer mixed it down from 8 track to 2 track he put each song on a different piece of tape that he took from 2 different reels.  He then joined them together.  I don’t know what make or type of tape it was but they are different colours.  The tape for 1 song is brown and the tape for the other looks more kind of greeny brown.  Therefrore, I guess, that one tape already had the bass and drums on it (but had been recorded at 15ips which is why it sounds slow now - in fact it may even be backwards too).  My music is at the correct speed but is just really quiet and hidden by these slow bass and drums.

The songs were originally recorded 25 years ago so the studio is no longer there and I can’t remember the name of the engineer so I cannot find out anything about that.  I rang the guy that transferred it to cd for me but I got his voicemail and he never rang me back.  He runs a cassette to cd service and I had happened to email him and ask if he could do a reel to reel.  He said he had a reel to reel and would have a go but he didn’t seem that interested in doing it.

Anyway - I will post a link once I get the track uploaded somewhere.

ok I have manged to upload it here:

http://www.birka.plus.com/

When it was originaly recorded 25 years ago the engineer transfered it to cassette and there is no evidence of these bass and drums at all on that cassette.

I pressume the guy that recently transfered it to cd for me must have thought it was meant to sound lke this 8O

Anyway, thanks again for any advice anyone can offer.

I just heard the track. since one of the tracks came out good, and the other didnt then, for now,we cant really say the tape to cd guy made an error. did you listen to the 2 track reel after it was mixed down from 8 to 2 track? if it was ok, then back to the tape to cd transfer guy. if he messed with the head aligment this may be the problem. you have to remember if you listen to the 2 track recording after it was mixed down. if it was ok then the tape he used to mix it down for that song may of been very old.

what makes me think of misaligment( say the transfer guy messed with it after the first track was already done) is because the drum and bass sound in mostly on one channel. where you have a better signal of your original song on the other channel.

there are reel to reels that record 4 or 8 channels.  your engineer may of used an old tape with 8 tracks with other music. he recorded over 2 of those tracks with your music.. if you were to play it back on his system it may be fine. but when you try and play it in another that may have a slightly different alignment then you here the other tracks, being the drum and bass you have.

the recording itself sounds good. so I’m 99% sure the good recording is still there. you just have to play it on a reel to reel and play with the aligment until you here both tracks evenly on both channels..

Thanks very much for all your help.

It seems like all may not be lost after all.

I had thought about buying an old reel to reel from eBay quite a few times over the years in order to try and get a good recording from that tape, but I was scared the tape may have lost its surface (which I now know hasn’t happened) but also I didn’t know if this 2 track tape was recorded on a normal 2 track reel to reel or 2 tracks of a 4 track reel to reel player.

The guy that transferred it to cd only had a 2 track so I think that probably means this was recorded on a 2 track. 
Is it possible to align the head as the tape plays?

I think that the enginer played the tape back in the studio, but I can’t be 100% sure.  But I do know that he transferred it to cassette and that worked fine, but the cassette is now 25 years old and it has lots of drop outs and wow an flutter on it.

Anyway thanks once again.

Ton,  Thanks very much for that.
I posted my last response before seeing yours so it looks like you could well have got to the bottom of it.

Maybe I need to think about getting hold of a 4 track reel to reel.

Thanks again to both of you.

[quote author=“ton”]Hi,

I never heard of this “leak through” thing as you describe and I do not think that is the case here as the bass-drum leak appears to be very loud.

After hearing this my guess would be it is a 4 track tape instead of a 2 track tape.
I think the guy that transferred it to a CD used a full 2-track recorder so 2 tracks covering the complete width of the tape.
I am pretty sure that if the tape is played back on a 4 track recorder the 2 tracks that you want can easily be separated from the bass-drum tracks.

If you need further help with transferring this you can contact me.

Ton

hey Ton its called “print through” usually with older tapes.
prior to listening, the description would fall under this. but after listening to the track noticing the obvious channel signal difference, it is an obvious misalignment from having different heads from different gear. what makes think further is that the first song is good and this one is not. this meaning that the “used tape” with music(8 tracks) was used to record the 2 track song. seems like the tracks were bounced onto 2 tracks using an 8 track recorder. the actual first song that came out ok was probably bounced to tracks 4 and 5 centered..this song may have been bounced to tracks 1/2,2/3,6/7,7/8 being considerably off. the best bet would be to have an actual 8 track and simply mute the other tracks with the drum and bass. if you get a 4 track you may or may not get the same problem as the guy did with his 2 track.although most of the time it is possible to align the head by ear until you only hear those 2 tracks..

I can remember that the tracks were recorded onto a Fostex R8 8 track first and then mixed down to stereo onto a second reel to reel that I don’t remember any details of (but it wasn’t an R8 ).

I think it is possible that the bass and drums may have been originally recorded onto that bit of tape using the Fostex R8 (at 15ips), and this also would explain the fact that it goes forwards not backwards, but I am sure that my stuff was not mixed down to 2 tracks on an 8 track, so as it now sounds like it couldn’t have been a 2 track I guess it must have been a 4 track.  Does that sound a reasonable conclusion?

I have listened to the track that came out ok again and I would say that the vocals sound too loud compared to the backing so I think this could also be explained if it was recorded on 2 tracks of a 4 track and then played back on a proper 2 track.  (But as it was not a second hand bit of tape it sounded ok on first listen).

Thanks again for helping me get to the bottom of this. 

I think the Tascam 34 in the photo looks very nice.

Now all I’ve got to do is try and buy a 4 track and sneak it into the house without my wife finding it.

Thanks for that Ton.

The trouble is I don’t know anyone that has any of these things, but I have always wanted to own one (especially since I saw the Human League play live with one running at the back of the stage).  It was the fact that I didn’t know for sure what the tape was recorded with that put me off as I didn’t want to buy something that I couldn’t play it on.  I’ve nearly bought a 2 track a few times from rbay in the past, as I thought the tape was most liely done on a 2 track, so it is a good job I didn’t.  Now I know it is a 4 track I need I shall be keeping a close watch on ebay over the next few weeks.

I currently record stuff to logic on my computer so I also thought getting a reel to reel to transfer the finished song onto might make up for the fact it had been in the digital domain a bit. 

Hope recording to Logic isn’t sacrilege round here :D

too bad you dont remember what it was recorded on. I agree with ton although I dont see an 8 ch/8trk head on there… the 4 track is more common so I hope that works since now you say the first song with the louder vocals. the whole thing about it going forward or backwards would really mean anything since the spliced tape that was used was a piece that may have been fed from a slave reel.  recordig on reels is nice, warm and you dont get digital distortion…so go get it

The 1/4 track reel to reel I ended up geting on eBay arrived this week and the track played absolutely fine with no evidence of those half speed bass and drums, so thanks very much Ton and Maschinemusik for helping me get to the bottom of that.  I had been really worried that the track was lost forever.

The sound quality was fantastic with only 1 or two very small dropouts which I think it pretty impresive for a tape recorded 25 years ago.  :D

well preserved, good news.. good times… use some low print tape for future trax to really make them last..

:wink:

I hope I will be able to release these 2 tracks on a vinyl 7 inch.  I wanted to do that at the time I recorded them, but couldn’t afford it.  Some friends of mine had just released their own self financed e.p. and I wanted to do the same.  Maybe 25 years later I will finally get to do it. :D