Doing some quick research and would like to ask all of you electronic people to help me out with one aspect of Kraftwerk which interests me in particular…
1) IF you have attended a Kraftwerk show, how would you describe the rough percentage of males/females in the audience? I need to know around what year and country/town. No scientific proofs needed, just estimations.
2) Judging from your personal experience and/or knowledge, what percentage would it be for the Kraftwerk listeners, i.e. people who like/adore Kraftwerk?
3) If you want to: Why do YOU think more men than women (okay, I gave it away there…:wink:) listen to and like, and/or play (in bands), electronic music? (My time perspective on this last question is mainly end of 70s/early 80s.)
Electronic greetings from Stockholm, Tina Arwidson
Author, journalist and Kraftwerk admirer…:wink:
Not too sure, although I’m under the same impression as you; that Kraftwerk seem to drag a lot of the tecchies out of their lairs into the concert halls…
I’d say it used to be a bigger difference before though! I remember that when I saw them in 2004, there were a lot more girls than I’d expected…
It was different when I saw them in Japan 2001, but that may have been due to the fact that they played a festival (Electraglide)...
But as one of precious few Kraftwerk fans of Northern Norway in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, I’d certainly say that Kraftwerk were seen as nerd’s music back then!
As for why more men than women play electronic music…
well, Tina, as a journalist, you may have noticed that most traditional rock bands are also male? How many female rap acts, black metal bands, jazz/fusion groups have you encountered?
Hi!
I see a difference compared to earlier days (if we except Karl Bartos’ solo show in Stockholm some 5-6 years ago with ca 300 guys and ca 5 girls… :wink:), but since I was but 8 years old when “Metamatic” was released for ex, I need some help to really say something about this period…:wink:)
When looking at the early 80s/late 70s, there are lots of female punk bands and rock/goth bands (can’t say anything about hiphop, metal or jazz), but when you’re looking for female “hardcore electronic” artists (i.e. more underground), you always end up with the same list of maybe 3-4, apart from very small artists that weren’t internationally known. I think this is reflected during this time in the listeners as well, and it seems to have been the case among the Kraftwerk listeners in particular…
Even though I can think of a few reasons for the lack of female electronic artists, none really explains it once and for all… And it doesn’t really explain why it should be reflected in the listeners either….
Thanks for the tip! Will try to check it out! A bit hard to find any info about them though, nothing on google and nothing here, guess they’re really “underground”.. I’ll continue searching!
Well, as I said, there are some women in this period among the really underground bands, but not many famous ones…
Keep up the good work everyone, I’m hoping for a lot more answers..
I find a general uninterest from women in alternative music, of all kinds, from electronics, to abstract hip hop or whatever, and ill bet my money on the usual man/female thing about men being more free and having a structural possibility to engage in “unworldly” things… it has been said uncountable times but it doesn’t make it less true.
Anyhow, I have small interest in collecting minimal/wave/other female artists, haven’t got so far yet, on the minimal side at least ( so thanks for that collection chevallier ).
My top five list is so far anyway:
1. Ronny, totally so cool, she would fit perfect in the queer world of today.
2. Beate Bartel, Involved in both Einsturzenden and Liasons. two bands that kind of shaped whole genres, both industrial and ebm owe a lot to those two. Thats pretty impressive.
3. Malaria! All girl german band, and sort of experimental.
4. Leslie Singer, making the wierdest, dadaistic noise ever heard.
5. Silvia “sauf und stirb!” not very feminine i’d say but incredibly cool.
On the swedish side, i’d say marina schiptjenko…. but she can’t be compared with the above five.
I think in mentioning some of the female artists of the genre, you altso put your finger on one problem of the gender aspect: I don’t know all the people you mention, but Ronny and Marina never wrote songs AFAIK, Marina playing sidekick to Eddie Bengtsson’s first incarnation of Page while Ronny fronted songs written and produced by some of the more famous, uh, writers and producers (Visage, Vangelis) of that time.
Thus actively contributing to the stigmatisation of women in pop - ie. the notion that women are supposed to look good and do as they’re told by industry guys…
Or am I going to harshly at the feminist issue here?
That is exactly what I mean, cause I agree at least on the Marina Schiptjenko bit… I’m more interested in the creative experimentalism of true electronic pioneers, and that role is sadly and overwhelmingly occupied by men…
I would dare to say Anne Clark is one of the few true female pioneers when narrowing it down to more minimal electronics, but the german trio (Malaria-Mania D-Matador) surely suits the role although a bit different (and not always quality-wise in my mind…).
Don’t know Ronny, but would you guys say Silvia should be considered as one of those “pioneering” women in the sense “inventing and creating something new from the beginning…?
Personally, after having looked into this for quite some time now, I’m leaning towards a mix of explanations… As in men usually being more into focussing on only one thing (a band, or collecting things, could be rare vinyls or something.. :wink:) thus being “narrow-minded” enough to endure a lifetime of certain non-sucess in the underground music field…
Added to the fact that in the late 70s, you had to build your own synthesizers… Added to the fact that women often had to end their “hobby careers” when/if they had children (talking 70-80s now)...
Added to the notion that for some reason, electronic music would not be attractive to women… But this is where I don’t agree, cause I coudn’t honestly see why this would be the case… Sorry, I’m lost here… :wink:
silvia: all songs written and produced by tommi stumpff.
anne clark: a great poet of our time, but I don’t think she made any of the music of her 80s albums (written and prod. by John Foxx, David Harrow and others)
but yeah, it was kind of my point originally that this gender aspect is not particular for minimal or synth music.
Would have written more, as there are interesting sides to the discussion, but alas, gots ta go.
On the Silvia part, I’ve heard as much too… But on the Anne Clark part, I’ve got to say you’re wrong there… :wink:
I interviewed Anne a few weeks ago and had the chance to go into deep on her music creating. She is indeed the “the brain” behind her records, although she has collaborated with others, for ex. Foxx on Pressure Points, and Harrow. But “The Sitting Room” is entirely produced and written by her, and after all that’s where she first created her unique style…
It feels to me there are much less women in electronic music than other fields, but maybe you’re right in that it goes for other underground styles as well… although I must point again to quite a few female punk, post-punk, goth and rock bands created or lead by women… But again, can’t say anything on the music styles I don’t know!
Delia Derbyshire…
Wendy Carlos….
Elaine Radique…
not necessarily wave names but important pioneers of the stuff used by synthesists 10 & 20 years later
Regarding Ronny, she is absolutely not another “goodlooking girl singing other peoples songs”, if you count being gender controversial as being innovative, she is really the one, . My point here ( and with Silvia ) is, these two added their character into the music, being not only another singer in the line, and finding bands with female singers is easy, Vita Noctis, Moev, SSQ, Hard corps, indians in moscow and so on, these are only the first ones coming into my mind.
Anyway
“.. and creating something new from the beginning…?” rules out everyone making music, its absolutely impossible.
But if we are namedropping “true electronic pioneers”
i’d say Delia Derbyshire! ( veronica play her songs once in a while ). She was really cool ( and into mathematics before starting to work for the radio workshop, another field suffering from being filled up with men)
Claiming that this and that band was truely original is also often to walk on thin ice, I think that ( electronic ) music has had a more continous development than that, but history in general tend to give all the credit to a few number of men. Einstein, Karl Marx, John Smith, Ceasar etc.
and ! the ones writing the history, are almost always men, and as such they tend to talk only about other men.
What I’m trying to say here is history has not been fair to female electronic artists, and im sure there are a lot of them to be found!
Now, if we return to new wave (end 70s/early 80s), would there possibly be any as cool (pioneering, not merely performing) women there which haven’t already been mentioned..? Any suggestions are welcome!!
In the French new wave scene, there are quite a few bands incl. women, like for ex. Deux, Kas Product, Hard Corps (a bit French at least!), but seems they weren’tfounders but joined in later, and I guess are more performers really… Any suggestions here, please..? :wink:
I’ll continue searching!
but incredibly cool. 
