Minimal Wave Records

[quote author=“catherine_k]

If someone/something sucks, its because of the people, not the gear they use.

Its a simple case of “Don’t hate the player, hate the game” with most people.

“If this is the Sean I’m thinking of, it’s a bit hypocritical to say this when the one time I saw you live, your laptop and fruityloops were hanging out to your immediate right. I dont recall but the only other things I saw you have for gear on stage was a microphone and a guitar

I hate when people (in forums mainly) downplay their use of vst’s etc.

It’s the synthsnob equivalent of a pissing contest, “my moog is bigger than yours”

-K”

different Sean…rather brash aren’t we…

brash or not, its still the same game.

its people complaining about vsts when they use them, (some of us can clearly hear it, not necessarily the fact that its a vst, but the EXACT preset on said VST)

not saying everyone uses them, but im sure some of the complaints have come from users, because its the cool thing to do

fuck vst, analog all the way, software is crap.

last i checked my cs80v(st) never went out of tune, wow, must be total shite

[quote author=“nuit-exterieur”]“If this is the Sean I’m thinking of, it’s a bit hypocritical to say this when the one time I saw you live, your laptop and fruityloops were hanging out to your immediate right. I dont recall but the only other things I saw you have for gear on stage was a microphone and a guitar

I hate when people (in forums mainly) downplay their use of vst’s etc.

It’s the synthsnob equivalent of a pissing contest, “my moog is bigger than yours”

-K”

different Sean…rather brash aren’t we…

I agree nuit-exterieur, that was rather brash…. The whole vst/analog//live/whatever/ect topic always seems to get heated.

Using certain analog synths live is not always the best idea for many reasons. Many may need time to warm up or even need tuned. Many are also more prone to breaking due to being more fragile than modern synths. Also, reguardless of cost if this breaks or gets stolen you may find it difficult to replace. Classics are meant for studio ..

As for the laptop argument.. it is quite too broad to just say “laptops live are lame”. Laptops can allow you to do many things live you can not otherwise as well. It is all in how you do it and how you present yourself. Electronic music live has almost always been more about presentation and crowd than “playing”. It is different than watching some guitar master shred on his guitar. Very different to me. A lot of modern music needs backing tracks because it is very textured and layered.. again very different from a ‘rock’ band. Skinny Puppy used backing tracks live from Logic.. but still had a great show. Here is an example of how the blanket statement that laptops = lame is very close minded.

Keep in mind.. backing tracks have been around wwaayy before laptops! Is there really a big difference between laptops playing backing tracks and a tape deck?

Also, what is really the difference between playing a digital hardware synth and a soft synth live? They are damn near the same thing..both digital synths. When you play a digital synth you press the keys and it plays sounds internal to the synth. When you play a soft synth live you are playing keys on a digital controller that plays the digital synth in your laptop instead of onboard. Big difference? Nope.. the laptop is basically a sound module in many cases. You are basically complaining because the keyboard is playing a sound outside of itself. See how stupid that sounds??

I must also add that these stupid small things only matter to us “tech heads” anyway. Almost everyone in the crowd could care less about ANYTHING technical.. they just want to see a good show. They dont get off to a bunch of gear like we do! Sure, it is easier to put on a better show with more live members playing but you certainly dont need that. I have seen plenty of good shows live with 2-3 people on stage and of course plenty of backing tracks. This all really falls under preference in the end and acting elitist like your preference is the some “truth” is arrogant..

cheers catherine…these sorts of paranoid comments about hypocrisy lead nowhere…there is of course no prescribed right and wrong… i personally don’t use VSTs…i may be privileged in that i have accumulated a fair arsenal of synths, step seqs, and vintage fx.  this is ultimately of little consequence to the listener and ultimately to me as i use a limited arrangement when either playing live or in the home studio… but more and more, i become more sensitive to the interplay of the voltage based synths, even in more limited live applications….for instance 2 sh 101s for alternating bass lines and percussion and an odyssey for alternating bass and leads (2 note chords)...or even simply an Arp odyssey and a string synth with a soundmaster dfrum box….

I have used midi in the past - a roland mc 300 with prophet, jupiter 6, and momnopoly…great results but as soon as i got my system 100 and began playing it and patching the noise and sequencing the filter i just couldn’t go back..there is something very haptic about these cv synths… i realise that there are a myriad of midi controlling systems that can modulate this and that, you can use brain waves to control your VCA, but i am sticking to this older method….all the best and hope not to incur anymore ire amongst other gear enthusiasts..

Catherine,

I saw your live performance and there were 3 of you on stage.
What was the point in that when the music was coming out of a laptop?
I don’t know if you are hiding under krztov name in this forum but that could be another topic…..
Anyways, sad to hear how you feel about Sean (Miami). The truth comes out in strange ways i suppose.

@statikcat:

It’s not the case that the vst’s are been played live. This is a matter of pressing play very much like a cd player and singing along.
The whole tape loop thing you mentioned was justified because of lack of gear, player or ease in order to “actually” play a melody and so forth.
As far as I know it was mostly drum tracks. Or samples.
This whole laptop discussion is based on people who take their computers and playback their entire tracks from it!

@krztov or catherine:

“not saying everyone uses them, but im sure some of the complaints have come from users, because its the cool thing to do”

speak for yourselves.

CR-78:

Firstly; Yes, I had two other people with me on stage for support. Did I have backing tracks? You bet. Was all the music being played coming out of a laptop? Absolutely not. You saw the show, you heard what was being played. You did not arrange or write any of the music, so therefore you did not know what was being done live.

Secondly, why would you make accusations that I am hiding under Krztov’s name? Anyone who knows me knows that Christof and I have been together for quite some time, and if I was going to make another name (which I would not) I certainly would not go by a name that could in any way be associated with me. 

Thirdly, the opinions stated by Christof have nothing to do with what I think, we are seperate people, with our own thoughts and ideas.

Fourthly, I don’t know what you mean by “sad to hear how you feel about Sean. the truth comes out in strange ways”. What would the “truth” be? I never said anything about Sean. I actually really enjoy Sean and think very highly of him. Christof mentioned Sean (without my knowledge, thinking that it was the sean we know) and his use of a laptop live. He or I never said any negative statements directed towards any one individual. I was simply discussing my likes/dislikes of different gear.

Fifthly, “speak for yourselves”? I never said anything negative about any gear, I was expressing my opinions on what works best for me. I never claimed to be an analog synth guru who dislikes any sort of Vst use…. Again, I was starting this topic so we could all express PERSONAL experiences with our music endeavors. 

I don’t understand why you suddenly jumped to the defense. I find it to be rather upsetting.

I am simply trying to exercise my mind here.

-C

go ahead, we are all entitled to our opinions.

THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CATHERINE

i mainly say this because cr-78 accused her of using my pseudonym when in fact i was expressing my own views/thoughts/feelings. last i checked regardless of relationship status i’m still allowed those (verification pending)

i’ll definitely vouch for live performance at the show since i was doing all the technical shit. there were backing tracks, but i was playing leads on my access virus, she was playing leads on the ms2000br and so on, the only other thing the laptop did was act as a vocal processor.

how about your song, Amongst the Waves, how coincidental that you wouldve programmed an arp/sequence that sounds EXACTLY like the patch called CD_HurryUp and CD_LetsGo on the Minimoog V from Arturia,

based on the way your post came out, lets examine the facts at hand:

you say “speak for yourselves.” about the vst usage, i guess ill bring forth the actual facts rather than just go by my statement above.

i bring you exhibit a:

please start by going here:
http://www.myspace.com/roninsynth  play the second track, Amongst the Waves

NOW
go here to an mp3 i created really quick, of the same patch/es
http://www.krztov.com/MoogVArp.mp3

sound similar? damn, even down to the sequence’s velocity hits

guess at your show your vsts will be all live, which would indicate a laptop, or the more expensive Receptor rackmount, which i dont recall you having (then again, i only know of the gear i heard about, maybe you invested in it, that plus minimoogv from arturia probably set you back over 2000 for the receptor alone, shouldve bought the real thing )

i dont care if people use vsts, hell i use alot, battery for drums, z3ta+ for some leads, etc.

but shit, dont try and be all elitist and deny facts.

“I don’t see how one can get satisfaction out of laptop playback”

<sarcasm> yeah i guess i dont see how one would get satisfaction out of playing with a laptop… man i guess your live show cant get no satisfaction
</sarcasm>

too bad i get plenty of satisfaction taking half the stress out of my shows by running SOME backing tracks, playing leads live, or having guitars live, meanwhile having my DAW processing my vocals,

guess id rather rent a truck, bring everything i own with me instead

also, i didnt mean anything negative towards Sean as in, the sean i thought it was from miami, shit, ive known him since i was like 17 in the Intruder Alert days. my mistake, i thought it was him and that it wouldve been hypocritical that he would be talking bad about daw/laptops when he used one. sean rules, nothing against him at all

Are we talking live or studio?

Amen brother.

For the record I dont diss vst:

http://www.minimal-wave.org/site/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=164

but we are talking live no? or did I take the wrong turn sir?

[quote author=“cr-78”]For the record I dont diss vst:

http://www.minimal-wave.org/site/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=164

but we are talking live no? or did I take the wrong turn sir?

in my opinion, either/or

you say live on backing tracks is like hitting play and doing karaoke, but isnt using a preset on a vst with little to no tweaks the same thing?

[quote author=“cr-78”]For the record I dont diss vst:

http://www.minimal-wave.org/site/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=164

but we are talking live no? or did I take the wrong turn sir?

and for the record: the wrong turn was taken when you accused catherine of several things you know nothing about

[quote author=“krztov”][quote author=“cr-78”]For the record I dont diss vst:

http://www.minimal-wave.org/site/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=164

but we are talking live no? or did I take the wrong turn sir?

in my opinion, either/or

you say live on backing tracks is like hitting play and doing karaoke, but isnt using a preset on a vst with little to no tweaks the same thing?

Again speak for yourself. You do things the way you know how, don’t assume others do the same.

If I can’t play a song I recorded in the studio I will simply not play it live. End of story, capicce?