Minimal Wave Records

Good to see you back here olaf…some wise and thruthful words there that surely will miss their destination.

Oy, sorry but i made a fair trade with Trine ! 

Haha,

I really was asking for more amateur rhetorics, now wasn’t I?  8)

As it seems it’s time for stressing the obvious again, now what I said was simply owning a record collection means jack shit when it comes to other people having to respect or admire you for it.

Which quite obviously does not amount to me saying that my own record collection means jack shit to me.

And again, there is absolutely nothing artistic about owning a collection, unless of course it is a collection of music that you happened to make yourself. If this is not the case, you’re a mere consumer of art who only stands out for the fact that you took a very long time to purchase the item in question.  :wink:

Music - a matter of life and death. How incredibly cute.  :D

@Kris
cheers, back in Berlin and back on MW. You coming to Bremen for the Shockwave festival in September?

agree with the panty thief, good to see you here again, F! <3

I wasn’t going to get wound-up again, but since I’m posting anyway, Obsey said -
“The truth is anyone who calls what another person believes nonsense is a weak person that is scared of ideas that are not the same as theirs. Most likely because they feel threatened by them, and they lack the equivalent knowledge or intelligence to understand opposing views that aren’t their own. “
-but if someone doesn’t need the Transparent illusion 7” or think Seeing Red is sub-standard new wave, clearly they are not allowed to call themselves collectors.
Thankfully, as Falck has showed us, one can have a life even without conforming to this standard of collectors.

-Admittedly, however, I think it’s pretty cool that you avoid all forms of remastering. Do you play the music on a 1982 authentic ghettoblaster too? For that 100% authentic listening experience? That’s hard core…

[quote author=“obscure”]The last thing I am interested in doing is promoting an artist to do the exact opposite of what I like about their old records.  The exact opposite being for them to commercialize their old music through

professionally remastering the tracks-
professional glossy record covers.-
with faux rarity-

[quote author=“obscure”] don’t think most the artists understand what makes their old records so great, and what makes the music on them so great.  I say that because the majority of the time when they find out people like their old records, and they decide to reform to do shows or whatever they sound completely terrible with no resemblance to anything that made their music great.

Are you sure you mean ALL artists that you “collect”
I think your comments towards them are extremely arrogant for someone that obviously is only a music consumer/collector.
Ton

Falck,

“I really was asking for more amateur rhetorics, now wasn’t I”

This statement must mean you are really threatened by me.  It is another back handed put down, and that makes two in a row for you :wink:  Since you are two for two in your displays of subdued aggresion then how would you categorize your own rhetoric.  I will make it easy for you and give you a multiplce choice.

1.  cowardly
2.  malicious
3.  ignorant
4.  all of the above

Do you know which is the correct answer because I made it super easy :wink:

“As it seems it’s time for stressing the obvious again, now what I said was simply owning a record collection means jack shit when it comes to other people having to respect or admire you for it. “

Is that really what you said? because when I copy and paste what you said it looks like this.

“The naked truth however is that although a lot of effort and money goes into, just owning a collection in itself means jack shit. “

Wow, those two sentences are completely different, but according to you they say the same thing.  Your intrepretation of rhetoric is complete genius that would make a serious linguist proud. 

In response to your second claim which was the first posted above and is nothing like the first claim I would say that I don’t think collectors really collect for other peoples respect or admiration.  People collect for their own self satisfaction based on what they like, and want to hear, and sometimes they even collect based on what others deem to be good.  Nonetheless, It is a very personal hobby that is often done in solitude, and has a lot of meaning to each individual collector.  No ones collection is as admired and meaningful to other people as their own is to them.  So I agree with that claim.  It was tough to intrepret your claim considering all the professional rhetoric you used with complicated words like “jack shit”, but I think that is what you meant.

“And again, there is absolutely nothing artistic about owning a collection, unless of course it is a collection of music that you happened to make yourself.”

Do you know what artistic means or art means :!:  Owning a collection of music is just as artistic as everything else in the world.  A person creates their collection from nothing.  Every collector uses different creative, and artistic techniques to find their records, play them, and catalogue them.  Everything about these processes is creative.  No two peoples wants lists, ebay favourites list, record store searches, listening habits, or organizing habits is the same.  They are all creative, and artistic in their own right. 
If you have the ability to understand that music a person made by themselves is artistic, then you should have the equivalent capability to understand a collection a person made by themselves is just as artistic as the music in the collection even if the music in that collection was created by others.  If you knew what art is and meant you would understand that.

“Music - a matter of life and death. How incredibly cute.”

Please go to Ian Curtis’s grave, and then come back and tell me that, and while you are there you can tell him that. 

You saying “How Incredible Cute” to my comment was the dumbest statement ever made regarding music, music lovers, and musicians.

Oystein,

“but if someone doesn’t need the Transparent illusion 7” or think Seeing Red is sub-standard new wave, clearly they are not allowed to call themselves collectors. “

Did I ever say you are not a collector Oystein? 

“Admittedly, however, I think it’s pretty cool that you avoid all forms of remastering.”

I will pay you the price of the Maskindans comp., and send you two blank tape cassettes if you will record the unremastered original versions of the unreleased tracks from the comp. onto them. Then I would like you to take two blank white tape J cards around to any band members that are in close proximity to where you live, and have them simply sign them or sketch or scribble anything they want onto them.  Also, I am not interested in different versions of any previously released material being recorded onto the tapes. I would like all the money that I send you to go to the relevant bands who’s music you have recorded for me.  I would then like you to take one copy of the Maskindans double CD with booklet and all, and throw it in the garbage.  That will be the copy I bought.  If you agree to this then I will definitely cherish the limited edition of 1 Maskidans double cassette with original unremastered versions of the music, and no different versions of previously released songs, and a beautiful home made diy scribbled sleeve from a handful of band members involved in the compilation.  And I will also be happy in the fact that my money went straight to those relevant band members.  That is what I call Cool. :D

And no I don’t have an old boombox, but I do have an old walkman, and the Maskidans double tape compilation is going to sound better on it than the remastered double cd will sound on any CD player in the world :wink:

Ton,

I never said ALL the artist that I collect are bad later on. I said most, and the majority of them are, and that they don’t understand what made there old music great in the first place. My comments about the artists is the truth as I know it based on my experience. If you knew me you would know that I am not only a music collector/consumer.

obscure

[quote author=“obscure”]
I never said ALL the artist that I collect are bad later on. I said most, and the majority of them are, and that they don’t understand what made there old music great in the first place.

So you hold “the truth”.
Did I say arrogant ?
Yes I said arrogant !

Ton

Well, well,

now typically the words obscure and quality don’t seem to be a match made in heaven,  but one must admit that he does have one quality.

It is this unbelievable stubbornness that just lets him continue no matter what, may he be beaten and badly bruised, scorched and been jumped upon a gazillion times.

He might by all rights consider a career in boxing, as even heavyweight champions might throw in the towel in the end having tired of that mass of pulp coming at them again and again and again.  8)

Now call me picky but I’d rather refer to situations like having nothing to eat as matters of life and death. Believe it or not, there are real wars out there being fought at this very moment, and there are also large numbers of people dying of starvation.

Mr. Curtis on the other hand was a depressive and suicidal lad by nature who happened to also make some music. Not that I am ungrateful for this in any way.

But the chief purpose of music is entertainment. Period.

Now looking on the bright side, I really liked the bit about the act of buying records being artistic.

Well, it might just be provided that you dress up like a ballet dancer and tiptoe to the cash register performing the occasional fancy jump.  :wink:

And I am sure with a bit of creativity, this can even be extended to the act of buying toilet paper.  8)

Obscure wrote:

“Music - a matter of life and death. How incredibly cute.”

Please go to Ian Curtis’s grave, and then come back and tell me that, and while you are there you can tell him that.”

The old romantic story…“Ian suffered for his art”

The truth is even more sad. Ian had epilepsy and was getting medication for it, but these had some very negative side effects like severe depression. Had the doctors kept a better eye on him and had he been prescribed different drugs, he might be still around, making music that you probably would think of as being substandard like most old farts when they try to make a comeback right?

Obscure wrote:

“If you have the ability to understand that music a person made by themselves is artistic, then you should have the equivalent capability to understand a collection a person made by themselves is just as artistic as the music in the collection even if the music in that collection was created by others. If you knew what art is and meant you would understand that.”

I’ve never considered my collection as a piece of art. Maybe I should. There is some creativity I guess in the way I shelf a part of my precious items in a large wooden cabin trunk that I fondly refer to as “thee elektro box”.
Dear Obscure, could you do a taxation as to its artistic value? Keep in mind that it is ever expanding, a “work of art in progress” if you will. In eager anticipation.  :wink:

Every time I read the title of this thread I realize that what I would really expect to see here is more statements like “I only collect still sealed records that have been given to me by the artists themselves”  :wink:

Personally, I collect everything as low as VG-, IAW everything that will still have a halfway decent sound to it on when put on my turntable.

I will only purchase anything that is less than VG- if it is a top want item and if I get it for pennies. In that case, I will however make a digital recording of it and remove pops & clicks etc and listen to that one instead until I get a better copy.

Ah, lest I forget: I ain’t collecting no tapes

Good idea, lets stick to the topic, much more fun

What I collect:
- these formats: LP, 12”, 7”, 10”, CD
- 80’s new wave, postpunk, cold wave, minimal synth, gothic rock, neue deutsche welle, ebm,... (also reissues of 80’s stuff) with an emphasis on the Belgian, German, French and UK scenes.
- good live bootlegs by Joy Division, Sisters Of Mercy, (early) The Cure and Depeche Mode
- 70’s electronics, ‘pre’-new wave (eG. Kraftwerk), some Krautrock too
- old school industrial and weird electronic stuff
- some punk classics

What I don’t collect:
- these formats: tapes & CDr’s
- really bad new wave (Company of State, Minimal Compact, Poésie Noire, Tattoo Hosts Vision On,...)
- commercial NDW (UKW, Nena, Frl. Menke, Markus,...)
- live bootlegs with bad sound quality
- stuff that’s graded less than VG
- stuff recorded after 1992 - yes I choose to live in the past
an exception to that rule is Depeche Mode (because they’ve been my favourite band as far back as I remember and I think their recent records are still great)

.

[quote author=“Claudia101”]
What I don’t collect:
- really bad new wave (Company of State)

You really should listen to their first 7”.  And if you don’t like it, buy it and sell it and earn some money. :wink:

[quote author=“minicold”][quote author=“Claudia101”]
What I don’t collect:
- really bad new wave (Company of State)

You really should listen to their first 7”.  And if you don’t like it, buy it and sell it and earn some money. :wink:

I think their best song is Heroine Eyes from the From Behind the Bushes Compilation. Maybe the best Belgian Cold Wave song. Although the singer obviously can not sing at all.

Tatto Hosts have a couple of great tracks on their LP too, actually. Of course, being me, I even like Markus

Ton,

I have my opinion about reissues, and I don’t think it is arrogant.

It is honest and truthful to my own likes and dislikes which I have already explained.

If I told you I don’t like all coffee would you say that is an arrogant statement.

I think the only reason you think my opinion regarding reissues is arrogant is because it differs from your own.

I didn’t tell anyone to follow my standards or else they would be deemed losers.  I just stated what my standards we’re, and responded to questions about them.

Falck,

“now typically the words obscure and quality don’t seem to be a match made in heaven”

That’s three in a row Falck for your belittling passive aggressive anger.

It can only mean one thing. 

You suffer from serious inadequecies, and you are trying to compensate somehow by belittling others.

What could the inadequecy issues of falck be caused by?

1.  Inner knowledge of owning a bad record collection.  Maybe the worst in Germany.
2.  Inability to see the 3rd dimension, where art consists of more than a Ballet Dancer, or a composition of music, and death consists of more than people starving, or fighting in a war.
3.  A strong sense of guilt over scaring all the 18 year old girls off the minimal wave forum.
4.  All of the above

“Now call me picky but I’d rather refer to situations like having nothing to eat as matters of life and death. Believe it or not, there are real wars out there being fought at this very moment, and there are also large numbers of people dying of starvation. “

I can’t even fathom your inability to understand that just as many people die of depression or depression related issues than in wars, and of starvation.  Art and art appreciation can and does keep people alive. Whether it is music, film, painting, design or whatever. 

“Mr. Curtis on the other hand was a depressive and suicidal lad by nature who happened to also make some music. Not that I am ungrateful for this in any way. “

If you we’re in any way grateful you wouldn’t be declaring “how cute” to his death, and every other musician, and music lovers death.

“But the chief purpose of music is entertainment. Period.”

The purpose of music is not only entertainment.  Entertainment is only one reason for music.  Among other reasons for music there are creativity, cultural reflection, and cultural influence.  Many musicians make songs that are never heard by anyone, and do it because of their own urge and desire to create the song.  Others make songs as a reflection of their culture, because they feel like it should be known.  They are not making music necessarily to entertain, but to enlighten or influence.

“Now looking on the bright side, I really liked the bit about the act of buying records being artistic. “

A record collector friend of mine that is also an artist took a collection of all his records by one musician, and for his opening he posted all the record covers on the wall.  That was his opening.  So does that constitute art Falck?  A record colleciton in an art gallery posted on the wall by an artist with people coming to see the exhibit.  I know you live in a black and white world where you one can only comprehend a ballerina as an artist, and that is why I am using this easily comprehendable example to illustrate to you that record collecting is just as creative as making music.  If you look at your collection you will see a piece of art that you made.

Claudia 101,

Why is 1992 the cut off date?

The first Company of State 7” is one of the best Belgian minimal synth records.  I have authority on taste :wink: so you should believe me, and get that record.

Depeche Mode we’re my favourite band from ‘87 to ‘95.  I would skip lunch in high school so I could buy their rare records.  I would also go to Second Coming Records in Boston, and Greenwich Village and buy as many Depeche Mode Bootleg LPs, and CDs as I could.  I remember thinking back then there could be no better band.  Then I started buying Joy Division records :wink:  The last Depeche Mode record I bought was Ultra, and I haven’t bought any of their post ultra records.  I have heard some of the songs from the last three LPs, and I thought they we’re awful.  I never thought Violator was one of their great records even when it came out, and it seems that all they have been doing since then has been trying to copy that record with the exception of “songs of faith and devotion”.  The record they really should copy 4 times over is “Speak and Spell”. 

Minicold,

I think you are a real minimal synth collector :wink:
Check it out spartak!  This guy knows what he is talking about.  The first company of state 7” is incredible, and minicold is completely right.

Oystein,

The tapes are in the mail.
I have the Tattoo Hosts LP :wink:
It does have some excellent tracks. 
Does this mean we can be friends